Odor in basement bathroom

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b33p3r

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Odor in basement bathroom. Started a year before we had to have our septic pumped. For the last year(clean septic) we still get this odor. Seems to only show up after clothes washer runs a few loads. Prior to septic cleaning, when washer was draining, , basement toilet would actually bubble up. Currently, no bubbling but you can see the water level bob up and down in toilet. Changed toilet wax ring twice now trying to cure odor but to no avail. Cannot really pinpoint where odor is coming from? Shower,sink or toilet.
There is a floor drain in basement just 2 feet from toilet on other side of wall and there is no discharge from drain. I also never notice an odor coming from drain although it is back in the utility room and I'm not really back there as often as the bathroom. Air stacks on roof look clear.
Could the drain pipe to septic tank be partially clogged and cause this problem? Any help would be appreciated. Bill
 

Jadnashua

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If the floor drain flows to the septic system, you need to either add a trap primer or periodically pour some water down it. Does the washing machine standpipe have a trap on it?

The water moving in the toilet implies maybe the washing machine pipe doesn't have a vent or the toilet doesn't.
 

SeattlePlumber

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Things to check...

If the water in the toilet moves when your clothes washer is draining, then the toilet either has a blocked vent or isn't vented properly to begin with. The drainage water from the clothes washer is creating a 'pull' or negative pressure in the drain that may be siphoning enough water from the toilet to destroy the water seal in the toilet's trap.

As a side note, that's primarily why plumbing vents are needed. Everyone thinks a vent is installed to vent sewer gases. While a vent does vent sewer gas, the primary reason for installing a vent is to protect a fixture's trap from being siphoned. When lots of water is flowing down a pipe, it creates a negative pressure (a vacuum) behind it that will suck out the traps of any fixtures in the vicinity that are connected to that drain. By having a vent in place, that vacuum is is broken because it pulls air from the outside instead of water from the traps.

It is possible that the septic back-up that happened a few years ago forced some solids into the toilets vent line and that it is still blocked.
 

b33p3r

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Thanks for the replies. Everything almost makes sense to me. I am not in the plumbing trades but not "totally" ignorant to plumbing. When my house was built, I told the contractor to rough plumb the basement for a bathroom. Well they did, but obviously without consideration for the vent system. They did not put a stack pipe in for the basement. The nearest vent pipe is probably 35' upstream as the piping runs. When I added fixtures to the basement bathroom, I realized this problem and put a mechanical vent(not sure if that's the proper name) on the drain pipe coming up for the sink. That was the easiest pipe to install something on. The others are under concrete floor.

What size pipe would be necessary for a vent stack for a toilet,shower and sink? And where would it need to be tied in to the drain lines. Upstream/downstream and how close? Main line is 3". I will bust up the concrete to remedy problem if necessary. I have a few options depending on your answers to the size and location questions.
Thanks again for the replies you already gave me. Bill
 

b33p3r

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Not everyone. I knew the vents were also used to supply air to prevent siphoning. I just used a mechanical vent because everything else is buried in concrete. Basically trial and error. For some odd reason it worked for 8 years. But not now.
No harm done. I'd have the same amount of work 10 years ago as I do now. Any constructive criticism would definately be a big help at this point.
 

hj

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odor

There are many places the odor could be coming from and not all of them are because you used a mechanical vent. The vent could cause problems but usually they would be a lack of drainage, not odors. And if it is not the cause, then running a vent will not cure it and you will still have to find the REAL cause of the odor.
 

Jadnashua

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If an air admittance valve has failed, it could be letting sewer gasses into the room. It has a rubber seal, it can fail.
 

FloridaOrange

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...put a mechanical vent(not sure if that's the proper name) on the drain pipe coming up for the sink. That was the easiest pipe to install something on. The others are under concrete floor

Not ..used a mechanical vent because everything else is buried in concrete.

Might want to make sure washer standpipe has a p-trap plumbed.


No doubt. A diagram of what you actually have would be useful.
 

b33p3r

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I agree a diagram would be wonderful. However everything is under the concrete floor so I don't have a diagram to supply. Now judging by the layout of the bathroom I can guess what I have:
1. a toilet connected directly to the 3" main.
2. A shower, probably 2"(?) drain connected to the 3" main
3. A lav with a 1-1/2" drain through a P-trap to a T . Top of T goes to a mechanical vent. Bottom of T to floor. Probably ties into the shower drain branch.
With respect to the 3" main, the toilet drain is 2.5 ' upstream from the shower/lav branch. All drains have less than a 2' run to main. After the shower/lav branch, the main runs 4' to the outside wall.
 
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b33p3r

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The only thing I believe the washer machine has to do with anything is that it's the only appliance that drains that much water at once.
However, to answer your question, the washer machine is on the main floor(above the basement).
The laundry room on the main floor has a 2" stack vent to the roof. This is connected to the drain pipe for the washer. The washer 2" drain pipe travels 25' and hooks up with the 3" main drain pipe. Right at this connection is the larger stack vent (3") to the roof.This connection is also where the main floor bathroom ties in. It is then a 35' run of 3" main before it gets to the basement toilet drain hookup. 2' after that the shower/lav drain ties into the 3" main. 4' after that the main leaves the house.
I believe SeattlePlumber has troubleshot my problem already. I have watched the basement toilet when the washing machine drains and it does lose some water level. I suppose after 2 drain cycles it may be pulling enough water out of one of the fixture traps causing the odor. After each washing machine drain cycle I have replenished the traps by running water/flushing the fixtures and I have no odor.
My dilemma now is what size stack vent do I need to run to the basement bathroom and can I tie it in to the lav drain system since that is the only pipe not buried in concrete?
 
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b33p3r

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I just want to say thanks to everyone who took the time to help me. Although I didn't put the fix in place yet, I'm confident you have all asked the right questions and gave me the answer to my problem. It's appreciated more than you know!
I hope I can help all of you sometime, although it won't be plumbing help LOL.
Thanks again.
 

Solsacre

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Codes are different in every state... You will be money ahead to have a local plumber over for a couple of hours.... and draw you a plan to fix your problems... This definitely sounds like a vent issue to me... and possibly an improper floor drain (is there water in it?).

vent size typically is 1/2 the size of the drain.... (toilets in Oregon require a 2" vent) Only one p-trap per vent.... (Arkansas allows up to 6 traps to a vent)vent comes off of the vertical, up to a 45 degree off.

vents can be up to 10' away for 4"
6 for 3
5 for 2
3 1/2 for 1 1/2

Your local codes will help a lot... even if it costs a little bit more get a permit and have it done right....
 
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b33p3r

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Thanks Solsacre. I intend on getting it fixed right. Permit? probably not. I will still do the work myself if I'm capable. I do know and talk to a local plumber from time to time. He's usually too busy with all the commercial plumbing he does to find time for smaller jobs but I think I can coax him to stop by and take a look and give me some professional direction. Yes I agree it will be worth the $$$.
I'm well aware of the value of a professionals advice and that's why I'm here asking questions. I'm really grateful for you professionals who are willing to offer your advice to keep us DIYers safe.
For me, DIY is not so much about saving money as it is the satisfaction of fixing something and learning new things along the way. Thanks!

Ooops. Sorry. Yes there is water in the floor drain and the floor drain is on the other side of the bathroom wall where I never notice any odors.
 
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