Cracked CI stack

It seems the more we get into this project, the more we find. Our CI stack is on the outside (100-yr-old house), and today my husband decided to pull down the rotten wood box covering it. That's when we noticed a huge crack - starts in front, runs downward and around the back. It's about 18" long and maybe 1/2" to 1" at the widest point.

We researched and decided on one of two options: fiberglass tape (which we've worked with before on our old sailboat) or a saddle-type clamp. Any ideas?

Given the other work we're doing, we hate to replace it. But it would be easy since it's on the exterior of our house. I would just hate for the crack to have compromised the structural stability of that heavy CI and cause it to come crashing down or something. The top has no cap so there's no telling what's in there. (And we will put a cap on it).

By the way, this huge crack is lower than the 2nd-floor bathtub and sink. Could this have something to do with drainage issues - such as slow tub draining and washer suds coming up basement toilet drain?

Thanks... And we're still working on hammering up those pipes/drains in the basement.

That's gotta be one of the worst places for that stack to be positioned at. Is there any play at all in the pipe¿ To properly fix that pipe you will need to get some type of cutter in their (snap cutter, grinder, sawzall)

Both methods you suggested are not legal but that's what happens when you get info off the net.

And what will you be capping¿ If you plan on capping the stack how do you expect it to vent¿

As for capping the vent, I didn't mean cap it to seal it - I mean put some sort of hood or "roof" or wire mesh or something over it. Right now, it's wide open and sits under a tree that full of birds nesting, etc.

There isn't any play in the pipe that I've noticed, but my husband was the one working on it today. And this is the first time we've "seen" it - it's been hidden behind a wooden box.

So how would we properly fix it? My husband has a sawsall, angle grinder, etc., so I'm sure he has something to do the trick for cutting it. So would we replace it with another section of cast iron?

Here's another picture to show the location better (just please ignore the paint job that needs to be done on the window bumpout...):

what does it do??

where does it tie in below??

in the basement?? or crawl space??



basically you are screwed if this takes the
toilet and bath water fromthe second floor.

flush the tolet a few times and see what happens..

Stand back when you do this experiment,
if you see water and hear the flush go past the crack, you are screwed..

once the cast starts to crack , it will keep cracking like a candy cane
all the way up the pipe...

you will have to gain access all the way up to the hub and
tee that goes to the second floor bath,

at that joint you will have to
either break that hub and then install a ...no-hub clamp
and change out this whole section of pipe to PVC all
the way down into the basement..

this is extremely mean....mean...mean...

and you cannot put fiberglass , or any
other repair on this cast tha twill last ...

you might want to call a plumber on this nasty one

That ladder is ready to take your hubby outta comish. Never have any of you up on it with such an extreme angle as pictured.

kingsotall said:

That ladder is ready to take your hubby outta comish. Never have any of you up on it with such an extreme angle as pictured.

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Thanks for the advice. Because of a wrought-iron fence and other landscape rocks, etc, at the bottom that you can't see, that was the closest we could place it without it going almost straight up the side of the house. If we do more extensive work, we'll have to have to do it differently.

You folks are flirting with disaster. There is not question in my mind that all of this CI should be replaced. There is no patching that would work much less be legal, and because of it's weight, CI is brutally difficult and dangerous to handle especially for the inexperienced, and it is definitely not a one person job. There are jobs that can be DIY, but there are some that are best left to the pros. I believe this is one of them. Not only because professionals know how to deal with the CI, but will know the best way and place to transition from CI to PVC. Not knowing what problems or difficulties might be found in making the transition, it is impossible to say how big a job this might be. A wise DIYer know he has reached his level of ability and is smart enough to call for help. This, I believe, is one of those times.

Gary Swart said:

You folks are flirting with disaster. There is not question in my mind that all of this CI should be replaced. There is no patching that would work much less be legal, and because of it's weight, CI is brutally difficult and dangerous to handle especially for the inexperienced, and it is definitely not a one person job. There are jobs that can be DIY, but there are some that are best left to the pros. I believe this is one of them. Not only because professionals know how to deal with the CI, but will know the best way and place to transition from CI to PVC. Not knowing what problems or difficulties might be found in making the transition, it is impossible to say how big a job this might be. A wise DIYer know he has reached his level of ability and is smart enough to call for help. This, I believe, is one of those times.

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Gary - I think you're right. We have a plumber coming Monday morning to send a camera down the main line. We're going to have him take a look at it. Our "patch" job is an idea to give us some time to get the money to replace the stack, which we don't have right now.

While not totally kosher, a very, very temporary patch might keep the hog in the bag for a short time. After the plumber makes his inspection and surveys the job, he can probably give you any alternatives and some idea of how much it's going to cost you. Having had a near disaster once with my CI stack, I can assure you it's no joke with 15 to 20 feet of 4" CI comes crashing down within inches of your body! If it hits you, your whole day might be ruined. You might look at asphalt roof patch and some wire mesh as a temporary patch, just remember whatever you use, it should not be considered a real repair. Think of it as sandbagging a levy leak in a flood.

Well, it's worse than we thought: the upstairs toilet, bathtub, and sink all drain into this CI pipe. We did a "test" with each one of those three, and water came out the crack. Looks like a replacement is in order. Holy crap (pun intended).

So, replace with another CI, or with PVC? We'll probably have to let the plumber do this, especially if it's CI.

ETA: Now I'm really afraid of what the camera is going to see in our main line on Monday...

Let the plumber do his thing! You'll have 3 choices of materials. PVC or ABS which are both a type of plastic, and CI. PVC or ABS have some advantages. They are cheaper and easier to install than CI. The do not rust or corrode so will last forever. They do have one noteworthy disadvantage. Water running through them is noisy. I you enclose the stack in a chase and insulate around it very well, that may deaden the sound somewhat. Cast Iron will last as long as you and yours will every need to worry about it. It will be more expensive both to buy and to install because of the weight and joining of sections. Again, take the advice of your plumber. This is a job that must be permitted and inspected, and for most of us laymen, there are too many places to go wrong on a job this big.

Well, at least you know why the wood rotted
My CI is on an outside wall - but mostly in the house - framed out
Insulation was tucked in all around the pipe, house from the 50's

Gary Swart said:

Let the plumber do his thing!

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That's what we're planning. Just wanted the pros/cons of different materials.

Scuba_Dave said:

Well, at least you know why the wood rotted
My CI is on an outside wall - but mostly in the house - framed out
Insulation was tucked in all around the pipe, house from the 50's

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Sounds like ours but it's mostly on the outside. Framed in with fiberglass insulation in the framed "box". You can imagine the shape of that insulation...

Wish I knew why it cracked. I wonder if it has to do with pressure/settling. It's not absolutely plumb - it angles away from the house more in one spot but comes back again - maybe just an inch or so overall. Being a hundred years old, our house has done it's fair share of settling, and I wonder if the subtle movement was enough to put the extra strain on it during a freeze or something.

Cracked Cast Iron

momisana: Just some info. for you. The most common reason that a outside line would crack was usually a leak during cold weather and ice would build up to the point of busting the pipe, one of the reasons they don't allow outside stacks anymore. That shouldn't apply to you since you have an existing install. Luck.

shacko said:

momisana: Just some info. for you. The most common reason that a outside line would crack was usually a leak during cold weather and ice would build up to the point of busting the pipe, one of the reasons they don't allow outside stacks anymore. That shouldn't apply to you since you have an existing install. Luck.

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If it's existing and we replace it, can we leave it outside? Kinda like being "grandfathered in"?

Glad to see you're calling in a plumber on this. I've done every project around the house and I think even I would leave this one to the pros.

BTW, the ladder did not look unsafe to me. Ideally your ladder should be 75 degrees to the ground. If you stand on a rung, your arms outstretched should be straight while holding the rung in front of you. If you go up and down a lot or have to carry anything heavy, a little less of an angle would be desirable. Look at my avatar and guess how I know.

iminaquagmire said:

BTW, the ladder did not look unsafe to me. Ideally your ladder should be 75 degrees to the ground. If you stand on a rung, your arms outstretched should be straight while holding the rung in front of you. If you go up and down a lot or have to carry anything heavy, a little less of an angle would be desirable. Look at my avatar and guess how I know.

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Thanks for adding this - especially from someone who obviously knows about ladders... My husband is not a small man and I think if he felt unsafe he would not have gone up there (it wasn't very high anyway - just the last bit he couldn't reach). On a related note, my brother fell last year while cleaning the gutters on his house - his ladder was too straight and didn't have enough of an angle. He had the sense to jump off mid-air as the ladder was falling. He got banged up pretty badly.

The rule of thumb I've always heard is 1 foot out for every 4 feet up. So if your ladder is 12 feet up, it should be 3 feet off of the wall.

iminaquagmire said:

Glad to see you're calling in a plumber on this. I've done every project around the house and I think even I would leave this one to the pros.

BTW, the ladder did not look unsafe to me. Ideally your ladder should be 75 degrees to the ground. If you stand on a rung, your arms outstretched should be straight while holding the rung in front of you. If you go up and down a lot or have to carry anything heavy, a little less of an angle would be desirable. Look at my avatar and guess how I know.

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A firefighter, I have tons of respect for you guys. That is one hell of a tough job. To all firefighters out there, thank you for doing such a dangerous job.

There where a couple fires this weekend in the Chicago area.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/05/dolton-home-destroyed-in-house-fire.html

I have a feeling this one is going to drive up the prices of gas in our area. http://www.wbbm780.com/Crews-battle-extra-alarm-fire-at-Lemont-oil-refine/4411540

Two plumbers, two different recommendations:

First plumber: replace entire stack with PVC
Second plumber: replace cracked section with new CI section

Both want to put ejector pumps in the basement and maybe cap off old main line running under the house and put a new one in outside our house - so it won't go under at all. Since the main line is only 3 1/2 feet deep at the street, excavation won't be as bad as if it were 6 to 10 feet down. Plumber #2 said if my husband and I dug it ourselves, we'd save alot of money. He's still estimating the whole ejector pump/pipe replacement to be several thousand dollars... ... and he wants to replace all the bathroom plumbing in the basement.

In the mean time... water is now dripping from the ceiling under the upstairs bathroom. My husband is going to get up in there and see what is going on. When the plumber (whichever one we go with) comes back to fix everything else, we're going to have them take a look at that as well.

If we had known what lurked below, we would've hung a For Sale sign. And, I don't think we're going to DIY much of this ourselves, maybe the demolition part if it saves us money. But we're tired of living in a leaky house with incorrect plumbing - because it can get nasty when your plumbing doesn't work. It's rarely crystal clear water that backs up or drips or whatever. We want it done right.

Sorry for the long message! Any feedback on these ideas? Thanks.

ETA: This relates to my other thread.