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Thread: mtbe in pex concerns

  1. #16
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking kitech troubles

    something else about kitec faliures.




    http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cf..._ID=22688&mc=9

  2. #17
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    LOL ,,,,,I am starting to think you ain't no fan of PEX MPM. In response to plumguy's question, I am a service plumber that has to deal with aging piping systems and you know when you see a train wreck coming.

  3. #18
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking rugged - a train wreck comming?

    I am still on the fence about the stuff.

    whats your opinion??

    but I amazed how much info I have found about

    the stuff. without really trying too hard.......just google


    the big issue is if their are troubles in a few years
    their wont be a SHELL oil company to sue,

    and all these fledgeling pex pipes companies will most likely
    go belly up if or when the trouble surfaces....
    thats the american way.

    its just little guys like us will be left holding the bag
    if or when the lawsuits start.

    the lawyers have gotta sue someone

    I have used ony about 1000 feet of pex
    but I feel sorry for any big time boys
    that got a 20 miles laid out there.

    Its gotta make you sweat a little.


    as far as a train wreck,

    you tell me if you think one
    is comming or not.

  4. #19
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Well we know that copper pinhole problems are less than 5% across the united states, mainly for what is either added at the water districts or something in the water causing such issues. ANYTHING man made can and will fail, some sooner than others. Blue MAX cost millions, PB cost millions, and here we go with a product that everyone wants to push, everyone wants to make. Now we are finding out how quickly how some of these brands are coming and going out of business in lightning speed, with a flurry of lawsuits and health concerns following. I have always believed that product that takes skill to install usually holds up in the long run. The average in my area to make a PEX repair is $89 dollars higher for the repair due to the liability you take upon yourself when making a repair. These row homes/condos/apartment buildings are loaded with it. Just wait till one of these buildings get run down and gets infested with mice/rats. They will eat that stuff up. And they won't eat it where you can get your crimper in there to make a simple repair; it will probably be in a bundle of 20 with no room to work in. Vibration against sharp objects is more probable for leaking than copper. Everything has its' pros and cons....but red flags are popping up regarding this product since so,so many people want a piece of this action, probably the product isn't being tested in a full term. Meaning, you can't run water through a pipe for 500,000 gallons and say it is tested to the test of time. Not so. What if you run that pipe across joists in a home with casement windows leaving the sun to bake that piping which already states it is not resilient to UV rays. IMO you shouldn't throw a roll in your truck and leave it in there for more than a week/month. In the end the consumer is going to take the hardest hit. Licensed professionals are going to charge more to CYA, and the hacks will be there with their tool rental to make a quick buck because all the plumbers who put their *** on the line have to charge to protect themselves. I wish there were as many forums back when BlueMAX and PB first came out as there are today. You would be getting the same kind of people praising this......Fast,NEW,CHEAPER piping and copper will be gone in ten years. As you see, those piping systems are now the haunting words of many homeowners, and copper is riding right along with the roll of the wave. Copper has 50 to 70 year track record that proves that it is good in many situations, not all. And most of all, it is a product derived from the earth that can be recycled. Plastic piping can throw off toxic fumes like any plastic, can melt down instantly when a water heater malfunctions. Workmanship is everything these days. Plastic piping gets extremely hard when water of varying temperatures passes through it over a span as short as ten years. At that point you are having to really force those fittings inside the piping, and even though you have to crimp it down, there is a possibility that hardened plastic is not going to conform to the ridges in the barbed fitting made for that piping. And if a PRV happens to fail and you just recently made a repair on this piping? Forget it, you are going to own that burst pipe situation no matter how powerful of a lawyer you get. Last one that touches it, owns it. Same goes for a copper solder joint that didn't take. The expertise normally takes care of any pipes blowing apart, but I am sure someone out there has had it happen. Usually flux @ the end of a container is the culprit. CPVC after 10 years breaks like dried twigs in a forest. You have to be extreeeemely careful when working on it for the fact that it can snap without notice when changing out angle or straight stops to fixtures. Feels like you are working on a flexible line. 97% of my work involves copper piping in new and older homes. I love the workmanship of the copper piping that was done in the older homes where they bent all the turns of directions and used all brass fittings. The very reason they are still there today, aging, easily able to connect to without worrying about the piping crumbing/cracking upon putting a tool to it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

  5. #20
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking something I found on e-bay

    Do you know that their is a difference

    between the new type C pex

    and the old type A pex????


    According to this information the old type A that I guess everyone

    has been useing contains toxins and has a bad taste


    does that mean that if you have been useing type A pex

    for years and years

    you might be in line for troubles some day soon??



    read this comapnies sales pitch about PEX...

    and the different qualities

    http://cgi.****.com/ws/****ISAPI.dll...ory=63902&rd=1


    I have typed them a question as to what the difference is between the
    new type c pex and the old type a pex that everyone has been useing for
    aaout a decade now...

    cant wait to hear their sales pitch on type c


    if you cant get my link to come up

    just hit e-bay and then pex.....

    some place is selling 10 ,000 feet at a time

    you cant miss it.
    Last edited by master plumber mark; 07-18-2005 at 11:01 PM.

  6. #21
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking Arnold gets involved

    Now Gov Arnold has gotten involved in the fight over
    PEX pipe This just came out Aug 1st...

    they are going to ram rod the stuff through without
    the safety tests that everyone wants...




    http://www.calpipes.org/MediaCenter_...arzenegger.asp


    Arnold is actually a smart politician,
    because he probably wont still be in office
    years from now when of if trouble starts..


    but he gets the glory for now...
    Last edited by master plumber mark; 10-01-2005 at 10:24 AM.

  7. #22
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Just to set the record straight, especially since posts were deleted in this thread and the one I am quoting from was left intact...

    Quote Originally Posted by RUGGED
    My user name is kkl on ****.com and llr on diy.com.

    Why do you advertise everywhere you go in these forums? Just to let you know that people watch and see what you do on these forums, I enjoy participating as much as I can and contribute without having a agenda. You might want to consider your reasons for helping others when you are really doing it for personal financial gain. Shame on you. I help others for free.
    That is part of your response to a post of mine that has been deleted. In that post I said you were: Steve Nienaber AKA DUNBAR PLUMBER, DUNBAR, RUGGED and STEMDOCTOR. And you denied it. I also said that you post wherever to increase your local business. And that you direct people to/from your website. You denied that to, and that post was deleted.

    Now Clicking on your handle above, RUGGED, I see you now have a "home page" that you didn't have back in July when you posted what I've quoted from this thread. BUT NOW... clicking to view your "home page"... Guess where it takes us?

    So I have to say.... you are here following me around protecting your business reputation in the northern KY and Cincinnati OH area where you've spent a fair amount of money and effort advertising your business. And your "home page" shows your web site links to a number of forums that you are a moderator of and it says you look for posts from people in your area. But there is NO LINK to Terry's...

    Thereby, you are advertising your business with each forum registration and every post that you do. And the above statement from you, well it shows who was telling the truth and who wasn't.

    This is your BBB listing:
    DUNBAR PLUMBING SERVICES
    66 McCullum Road
    Independence, KY 41051

    Original Business
    Start Date: 9/23/2002
    Type of Entity: Corporation
    Principal: Steve Nienaber, President
    Local Phone Number: (859)359-4833
    Membership Status: YES
    TOB Classification: Plumbing Contractors
    Web Site URL(s): http://www.dunbarplumbing.com

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates

  8. #23
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I think I added his web page for him.

    He may not know it's there.

  9. #24
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Ah yes, sweet justice. Thank you.

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates

  10. #25
    DIY Junior Member billboardman's Avatar
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    I need some advice from this community. We have lived in our house for over two years and our water has been terrible. Tastes and smeels like paint varnish. We had a water test and it came back that we had MTBE in the water of 9.61 (20 to 40 is EPA standards) so I am below EPA standards, but we simply can't drink the water. We have PEX installed in our house and the company (Viega) has stated to us that the pipe in our house was not properly sealed and could be leaching things into our water (could it be MTBE?) This leaching effect could lead to pipe failure-what is the advice out there? Is our water dangerous to drink??

  11. #26
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    The Mfg admits to leaching toxins? I dont think so. Have never heard of a sealer being placed inside any sort of PEX. Let your water run for 5 minutes before a test and you mtbe will be zero.

    Install a carbon filter at the drinking tap to be sure.

  12. #27
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Old thread. Some comments in 2005 that PEX was a train wreck about to happen!

    What DID happen, THIS WEEK, is that the California Plumbing Code removed ALL restrictions on PEX. It is now approved for all contstruction...res, comm'l, health care, etc. This took place after a lengthy and $$$$lawyer friendly$$$$ environmental review. One provison of the code is that any PEX installation ( new construction) must be flushed for 10 minutes...TWICE, a week apart. Until the flushing is complete, the plumber must attach a caution tag to each tap advising to flush before using


    If Jerry Brown, Arnold, and Maria are OK with PEX, how bad can it be???

  13. #28
    DIY Member Kimster's Avatar
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    This is a very interesting thread. It's run the gamut from PEX will kill you to PEX will kill the plumbing industry. I am no fan of PEX simply because it isn't an environmentally-friendly product. But, being someone who has recently had some installed because no plumber that I have contacted for quotes uses copper anymore, what choice did I have? In reply to the lament that PEX will be used by the untrained masses, I say that I could have done a better job on the PEX than the plumbers I hired did.

    I think the biggest problem is the lack of care and concern there is for the homeowner. It's get in, get out and get paid. My husband is also a tradesperson and he is not old. He makes sure everything is done to the best of his abilities and if there's something he can't do, he finds someone who can and who will do the job as good as he would have.

    Where do people like me go? Plumbers have outright told me that they didn't want to do my job because it's not worth it for them. One company said unless they were to do the entire renovation on my bathroom, including supplying the fixtures, they weren't interested because otherwise, they would just be doing the s**t jobs and nothing good. Those were their words. Other plumbers just said they were too busy to do a $700-$1000 job.

    So, what are my options? I can't solder a joint. I can't hire a decent plumber who can and when I hired a company I got a wreck of a job. Aren't I just better off doing it myself? This has been created by those in the industry, not by PEX. not by Home Depot, not by legislation. And yes, I am pi**ed. I just want an honest, skilled plumber that cares about my home as much as they do about theirs and I'm not looking to cheap out. Can't find one.

  14. #29
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Ain't it funny how all the major plumbing publications and trade magazines tout the "GREEN" thing issue after issue but nobody is willing to bring up the fact that all this plastic plumbing crap is an environmental disaster to manufacture and to dispose of compared to copper which is 100% recyclable and is way less toxic to produce. Tell me they are not all a bunch of hypocrites. All the industry cares about is quick and easy and making the fast buck. Worse yet a very large percentage of plumbers have bought into the whole thing.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  15. #30
    DIY Senior Member asktom's Avatar
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    I am no fan of PEX, used it once under duress while kicking and screaming the whole way. Copper is recylable. However, when it comes to toxicity of production you need to go to Butte America and peek in the Berkeley Pit and then follow all the superfund sites from Anaconda on downstream along the Blackfoot & Clark Fork Rivers to see how clean it is. Mining is a nasty business that leaves a mess behind. It is still better than plastic, but, whichever way you go (and nobody wants to hear this, me included) we each need to have a smaller footprint on the planet.

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