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Thread: Where are cleanouts necessary?

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member GoDillos's Avatar
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    Default Where are cleanouts necessary?

    Are there any easy rules about where you need to add cleanouts? I think I've got the whole drain/vent system planned in my bathroom remodel except for the cleanouts. Here's the general layout. Could anybody suggest where I should add the cleanouts?

    3" toilet drain - runs 6' with 135 degree turn to main stack
    2" shower drain - runs 5' before tying into tub drain
    2" tub/shower drain - runs 6' before tying into sink branch with wye/45
    1.5" sink drain - runs 8' before increasing to 2" where it meets tub/shower drain

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    The general rule is every 50 feet and at every change of direction. Also having clean outs under the sink is a big plus. Shower and Tub drains if your using a 2" glue p-trap a small snake will pass through it easily enough.

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    There is no general rule, other than that every section of the drain should be accessible for snaking purposes. Describing your system, the way you did, is absolutely irrelevent, because one cleanout could "protect" more than one fixture. We need to SEE how you installed, or are installing, the piping.

  4. #4
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    Default Illinois Code on Clean outs.

    Here is the page that deals with clean outs.

    Section 890.420 Pipe Cleanouts



    a) Location of Cleanouts Within a Building Drain

    1) Cleanouts shall be not more than 50 feet apart, including the developed length of the cleanout pipe, in horizontal drainage lines of 4 inches or less size. Cleanouts shall be not more than 100 feet apart, including the developed length of the cleanout pipe, in horizontal drainage lines of over 4 inches to 10 inches in size. Cleanouts shall not be more than 150 feet apart, including the developed length of the cleanout pipe, in horizontal drainage lines exceeding 10 inches in size. For underground drainage lines exceeding 10 inches in size, manholes instead of cleanouts shall be provided and shall be located at intervals of not more than 150 feet.

    2) When it is necessary to conceal a cleanout plug, a readily accessible covering plate or access door shall be provided.

    3) A test tee at the base of the stack may be used as a cleanout.

    4) A full size cleanout shall be located within 5 feet of the building foundation, inside or outside, in direct line with the building drain and sewer.

    5) All cleanouts in vertical stacks shall be located no higher than 48 inches above the floor.

    b) Change of Direction. A cleanout or manhole shall be installed at each change of direction of the horizontal building drainage system greater than 60 degrees; the total of the fittings between cleanouts or manholes shall not exceed 120 degrees. A manhole within a building shall be provided with an iron cover which shall be securely bolted in place and made gas and water-tight with a soft metallic gasket.

    c) Underground Drainage. When installed on an underground drain, cleanouts shall be extended to or above the finished grade level; or may be extended to outside of the building. (See Appendix D: Illustration F.)

    d) Concealed Piping. Cleanouts on concealed piping shall be extended through and terminate flush with the finished wall or floor; or pits or chases may be left in the wall or floor, provided they are of sufficient size to permit removal of the cleanout plug and cleaning of the system. (See Appendix D: Illustration G.)

    e) Base of Stacks. A cleanout shall be provided at, or no more than 4 feet above, the base of each vertical waste or soil stack.

    f) Buildings with Slab Floors. For buildings with a slab floor or with less than a 36 inch crawl space under the floor, or where a stack cleanout is not otherwise readily accessible, one of the following shall be provided in lieu of a cleanout at the base of the stack:

    1) The building drain shall be extended to the outside of the building and terminated in an accessible cleanout.

    2) An accessible 2 way cleanout shall be installed in the building drain downstream from the stack provided that no other drainage pipe connects to such pipe inside the walls of the building unless it has its own cleanout at the base of the stack or extended outside the building.

    g) Direction of Flow. Every cleanout shall be installed so that the cleanout opens in a direction opposite to the flow of the drainage line or at right angles thereto, except as permitted in subsection (f) of this Section.

    h) Cleanout Plugs. A cleanout shall not have a plumbing fixture installed in it or be used as a floor drain.

    i) Cleanouts shall be of the same size as the pipe they serve up to a maximum of 6 inches, and at least 6 inches for larger pipe.

    j) Cleanout Clearance. All cleanouts shall have a clearance of 18 inches for the purpose of rodding. (See Appendix D: Illustration H.)

  5. #5
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Which code is this?

    g) Direction of Flow. Every cleanout shall be installed so that the cleanout opens in a direction opposite to the flow of the drainage line or at right angles thereto, except as permitted in subsection (f) of this Section.

    Unless they are referring to the plug and not the cleanout's flow direction. In which case the writer was mentally deficient.

  6. #6
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    Which code is this?

    g) Direction of Flow. Every cleanout shall be installed so that the cleanout opens in a direction opposite to the flow of the drainage line or at right angles thereto, except as permitted in subsection (f) of this Section.

    Unless they are referring to the plug and not the cleanout's flow direction. In which case the writer was mentally deficient.
    That came right out if the Illinois Plumbing Code book. I do believe what they mean is the clean out on a vertical stack. so if the building drain is flowing north, the clean out on the stack should open on the south side of the stack so the natural arch of the cable will make the turn easily below the stack. Or in the case of older homes where they put tees on its back below the stack to help ensure the rod makes the right turn.

    Last edited by SewerRatz; 04-14-2009 at 01:47 PM. Reason: added picture, and cleared up wording ... I hope

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    DIY Junior Member GoDillos's Avatar
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    Wow - thanks for all of the information so far! I tried to put together some pretty crude sketches of what I'm doing. Basically, I'm completely replacing 2 branches. I need to tie back into the "stubs" of the old branches because I don't have access to the main stack. It's in the foundation. Here's the toilet branch:



    Here's the tub/shower/sink branch:



    My original plan was to put cleanouts everywhere, but I don't know if that's necessary anymore. I read on here that the toilet line is accessible through the toilet. Also, the tub and shower lines should be accessible through those drains, right? I don't really understand why you need a cleanout under the sink if you have a trap adapter with a slip nut. Can't you just go in there?

    Well - Have I swung back too far the other way? Any advice?

  8. #8
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    Lots of codes do not consider pulling a water closet as a proper clean out. Trouble is you are adding a bunch of turns which puts more stress on the rodder when it comes to rodding the main line.

    The bathtub can be rodded from the overflow, and the shower from the shower drain. I

    t is nice to have a clean out under the lavatory sink just above the tee where the lavatory sink drains this way when you do rod the lavatory sink line you can run water which will help the rodding process.
    1. Do you need a clean out for the lavatory sink? The answer is no.
    2. Will having one make drain cleaning easer? Yes it will.
    3. Can you power rod you sewer from a closet ell? Yes you can but it can make things difficult and messy. Also may not meet your local code.

  9. #9
    DIY Junior Member GoDillos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SewerRatz View Post
    1. Do you need a clean out for the lavatory sink? The answer is no.
    2. Will having one make drain cleaning easer? Yes it will.
    3. Can you power rod you sewer from a closet ell? Yes you can but it can make things difficult and messy. Also may not meet your local code.
    Thanks SewerRatz. That makes sense about the lav drain, and it seems easy enough. So, I'll add that.

    Where would you suggest adding a cleanout for the toilet? I'm running into a little bit of access issues since it is so close to the foundation wall, and the crawlspace is really short over there.

  10. #10
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    If you have a clean out already on your main sewer line somewhere I would not worry to much then. But if you do not have one, i try to squeeze on in somewhere, or at least in the near future install one outside.

  11. #11
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    I know this post is a bit old but while paging through the Illinois Plumbing Code I found the part where they do not consider a water closet as a cleanout equivalent.

    Section 890.430 Cleanout Equivalent

    Fixture Trap. A fixture trap, readily removable and without disturbing concealed plumbing or requiring fixture removal, is acceptable as a cleanout equivalent, if there is no more than one (1) 90 degree bend on the line to be rodded. A water closet is not considered a cleanout equivalent.

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