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Thread: Plugs off, Breaker On

  1. #16
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=TedL;191331]
    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    If it is two weeks old and is tripping a GFCI then let the warranty replace the unit.

    Sorry to let the real world interrupt here, but I have to ask that you show me an appliance warranty that provides for replacement, not repair.

    Perhaps you're prepared to throw away an item that might merely have suffered a damaged cord, rather than repair it. Most of us are not financially prepared to engage in such fanaticism. Ensuring safety I support wholeheartedly. Irrational overreaction, I don't.

    If I buy a new appliance and two weeks later something goes wrong with it I can promise you that a repair man is not coming into my house to fix anything except to deliver a new appliance. The amount of money in my pocket is not what will drive the issue either.

    I value the life and safety of my love ones more than trying to keep an appliance that is tripping a GFCI plain and simple. I leave it up to you to place the value of what ever you choose to value in the manner you see fit.

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member TedL's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jwelectric;191344]
    Quote Originally Posted by TedL View Post


    If I buy a new appliance and two weeks later something goes wrong with it I can promise you that a repair man is not coming into my house to fix anything except to deliver a new appliance. The amount of money in my pocket is not what will drive the issue either.

    I value the life and safety of my love ones more than trying to keep an appliance that is tripping a GFCI plain and simple. I leave it up to you to place the value of what ever you choose to value in the manner you see fit.
    Following your "never repair" rule, I suppose when the brakes on one of your vehicles become unsafe, you throw the car or truck away as well? No less irrational.

    And your rejection of even exploring the possibility that the GFI may be defective before tossing the appliance speaks volumes.

    Your approach reminds me of the schools with "zero tolerance" policies toward guns that treat a kid's hand drawing on a piece of paper the same as a working Uzi. No thinking required or allowed.

  3. #18
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedL View Post
    Following your "never repair" rule, I suppose when the brakes on one of your vehicles become unsafe, you throw the car or truck away as well? No less irrational.

    And your rejection of even exploring the possibility that the GFI may be defective before tossing the appliance speaks volumes.

    Your approach reminds me of the schools with "zero tolerance" policies toward guns that treat a kid's hand drawing on a piece of paper the same as a working Uzi. No thinking required or allowed.
    Isn’t this typical of most people who just post without having very much to say. This has gone from a 10 year old refrigerator to a two week old refrigerator and then to the brakes on a car even to our public schools.

    Listen to what I am saying and try to understand.

    First if I have an appliance that is 10 years old that is tripping a GFCI device that appliance is out the door no questions ask and none implied.

    Second if I buy an appliance and two weeks later it starts tripping a GFCI device that appliance will be replaced with a new one from the place I purchased it. No I will not accept a repairman fixing it.

    Third if the brakes go out on my car just as everyone else I have them repaired which has nothing to do with a refrigerator.

    Forth if a kid draws pictures of weapons while in school not only should that kid be expelled but the parents should do jail time for not teaching the kid to do better. Someone should have taught him how to think of the consequences of his actions for breaking the schools rules. I don’t think that my child should be in fear so another child can express their self and vice versa.

    As I have already said and am saying again should you have an appliance that is tripping a GFCI and you choose to ignore the problem or decide to put a band aid on it then that is your choice but it is also my choice to replace the item which is exactly what I am going to do. I place a value on my loved ones that is much higher than the price of an appliance.
    Last edited by jwelectric; 03-23-2009 at 04:30 AM.

  4. #19
    Remodel Contractor GabeS's Avatar
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    Okay. So I know that fridges in garages used to be allowed to not be on a gfi as long as it was a single receptacle (one where you could only plug the fridge in and nothing else).

    JC, did the new 2008 code change this? If so, why? What's the reasoning? Should we go as far as to make every outlet in the house gfi protected using that reasoning?
    Gabe

    Don't follow my advice, I only know a thing or two about a thing or two.

  5. #20
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabeS View Post
    Okay. So I know that fridges in garages used to be allowed to not be on a gfi as long as it was a single receptacle (one where you could only plug the fridge in and nothing else).

    JC, did the new 2008 code change this? If so, why? What's the reasoning? Should we go as far as to make every outlet in the house gfi protected using that reasoning?

    Yes this all changed in the 2008 code cycle. All receptacles installed in a garage and unfinished basements are required to be GFCI protected except for a circuit that is supply only fire and burglar alarms.

    The receptacles are mostly installed over bare concrete floors and concrete is a good conductor of electricity.

    Refrigerators plugged into receptacles in commercial kitchens have required GFCI protection for the past couple of code cycles.

    This train of though of nuisance tripping is nothing more than hogwash and holds absolutely no merit at all. UL has been requiring that manufacturers of electrical appliances to keep their leakage current to below .005 amps for more than 10 years now so if an appliance is tripping a GFCI I highly recommend that the appliance be replaced.

    Take this same appliance and place it on a bare concrete floor with a little moisture and bare feet and you have one of the reasons quoted in the substantiation that cause the code change. Yes someone died from this type of installation.

    Then we have the argument that the appliance cost too much to replace then I ask, “Have you priced a funeral lately?”

  6. #21
    DIY Senior Member TedL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post

    Third if the brakes go out on my car just as everyone else I have them repaired which has nothing to do with a refrigerator.

    Forth if a kid draws pictures of weapons while in school not only should that kid be expelled but the parents should do jail time for not teaching the kid to do better. Someone should have taught him how to think of the consequences of his actions for breaking the schools rules. I don’t think that my child should be in fear so another child can express their self and vice versa.

    As I have already said and am saying again should you have an appliance that is tripping a GFCI and you choose to ignore the problem or decide to put a band aid on it then that is your choice but it is also my choice to replace the item which is exactly what I am going to do. I place a value on my loved ones that is much higher than the price of an appliance.
    I am sorry to hear that you have instilled such fear in your children that they would feel threatened by a doodle of a civil war rifle, copied from a textbook supplied by the school. You left out the flogging that should accompany the imprisonment.

    Given the level of fear you live in and try to induce in others, I don't understand how you miss the connection between the safety
    role of brakes and the safety role of GFIs.

    And by the way, the phony debate technique you employ of putting words in my mouth and then inveighing against them merely reveals your own doubts about your ability to present a rational, compelling argument.

    My points were two: First, confirm that the problem was in the refrig. and not the GFI. Second, consider repairs where practical. Go back and have someone read my comments to you, if necessary

    You say you grasp the second concept in the context of 2 ton +/_missles hurtling down the highway at 65 MPH (i.e., brakes can be repaired, the car need not be replaced when they become unsafe). But not anything electrical. That's your limitation, not mine.

  7. #22
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedL View Post
    I am sorry to hear that you have instilled such fear in your children that they would feel threatened by a doodle of a civil war rifle, copied from a textbook supplied by the school. You left out the flogging that should accompany the imprisonment.
    The rules are the rules and there shouldn’t any exceptions. The rule is no drawing of firearms then so be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TedL View Post
    Given the level of fear you live in and try to induce in others, I don't understand how you miss the connection between the safety role of brakes and the safety role of GFIs.
    If you truly think that the brakes of a car is the same as a GFCI then I have nothing but pity for you and shall stop trying to explain anything as it is obvious that you wouldn’t be able to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by TedL View Post
    My points were two: First, confirm that the problem was in the refrig. and not the GFI. Second, consider repairs where practical. Go back and have someone read my comments to you, if necessary
    It was already confirmed that the refrigerator was the problem and to sink money into a 10 year old appliance just ain’t sensible.

    As to the brakes on a car any reasonable person knows that breaks are made to be replaced at certain intervals. Hermetic refrigerant motor-compressors have never been designed for replacement and for the cost of replacement and the price of a new unit I wouldn’t waste my time and money on something that is already served it life serving me.

    Now if you can’t see the difference between the brakes on a car and a GFCI make sure someone checks your bag of oranges to ensure that you haven’t bought a bag full of tennis balls.

  8. #23
    Engineer Furd's Avatar
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    My refrigerator is plugged into one of the "small appliance branch circuits" serving my kitchen. Both of the sabc's are ground fault protected by individual GFCI circuit breakers installed when the house was built in 1987. My refrigerator has NEVER tripped the GFCI circuit breaker nor has any other appliance yet I CAN trip either of the GFCI breakers every time with my GFCI tester.

    ALL of my garage receptacles are GFCI protected, I wouldn't have it any other way.

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