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Thread: Stinky water, high iron, need softener and overwhelmed

  1. #31
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Not knowing someones mechanical limitations and giving them a 3-4 hr. time frame on installing a water treatment system, sounds a little deceiving. You sound better telling them to hire a plumber. Go Home Depot! You can do it!

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
    Last edited by sammyhydro11; 03-20-2009 at 06:24 PM.

  2. #32

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    I know you guys are suggesting the chlorinator but would a Manganese Greensand Filter. Our sulfur bacteria count is on the low end right? Just exploring all options.

    Biermech, when you say 1 cf could you explain a little more.

    Thanks,
    C

  3. #33
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Sammy, before you can knowledgeably criticize my statements, you need much more experience in sales to DIYers. I have been selling to them from 1992-1994 and now since 2002. My record is 4' 11" twin 73 year old spinster sisters, they installed their softener in FL outside along side the house. They had never done anything like that before, and they only called me once while they were doing it.

    Also, I've never heard of any customer that wanted to hire a plumber to install their equipment and couldn't find one, it's simple plumbing and that's all they have to do, the customer does the programming etc..

    Chatterk, a .5 cuft carbon filter and a 1.0 cuft softener is too small. The carbon will load up fairly quickly and the salt efficiency of the softener will be terrible.

    With your SRB, you must kill it and a manganese greensand filter will not kill anything. Greensand regenerates with expensive potassium permanganate and it is a serious poison and expensive.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #34

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    So it sounds like we would only need 24,000 grain water softener correct? I thought our water was on the high end of iron (at least that is what the Culligan guy suggested). So what is the difference in a 24k, 32k, 48k water softener?

    Biermech, I know you rave about "no computers" which I have to agree, that does sound appealing. My brother has an old Culligan that is all mechanical and he loves it. Is that true with every Fleck (no computer).

    As far as the Greensand goes, I didn't know it was more expensive. Also, I will take Gary's word on it using a poison. There are a lot of dangerous drugs on the market that FDA has not banned. I don't care if everyone is using them, I wouldn't trust it based on that.

    Gary you think get a bigger tank and Biermech you say 1 cf will work. What is the harm in going a little bigger just to be safe? Also, on the resin, should we do the upgrade to the C249 or Fine Mesh? I assume we should look for something similar to this.

    We will be out at the house tonight and I will try to get pictures of the set up. My dad pre-plumbed for a softener and I can't imagine having room for the chlorinator, retention tank and filter (all before the softener right?).

    Are my sulfur bacteria numbers all that high? Would a softener and carbon filter potentially take away all the odors?
    THanks much!
    C
    p.s. Gary, I appreciate your approach with DIY'ers. I am confident we can handle this (hubby is an ME). I think it's better to assume someone can do something before assuming they can't. I loved your story about the sisters in Florida. That's awesome.

  5. #35
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Chatterk, regardless of what Sammy says, everything I've said is true.

    A 1/2 cuft of carbon is too small because it has a very low SFR (service flow rating).

    Without chlorine or another disinfectant, the SRB will go right through the filters being mentioned and remain in your water along with any odor it causes after either a carbon or greensand filter. If there is enough of it, it can cause the filters to fail and a failed carbon filter requires new carbon after you sanitize the tank.

    My softener would have a 3 gpm higher peak demand flow rate than a 1 cuft meaning it will remove all the hardness, iron and manganese from a higher flow rate. It will also have a much reduced pressure loss. It will give you a regeneration on average every 8 days instead of every 6 days saving 15 regenerations and 90 lbs of salt and a bunch of water and pump wear.

    The softener will have variable reserve based on the individual last 21 days actual water usage, and that is controlled by the computer. Ask anyone selling you a mechanical metered Fleck how the reserve is calculated.

    My softener makes brine with softened water which keeps the salt tank much cleaner.

    It records the highest gpm run through it for each of the last 7 days and then the highest gpm since the day the unit was installed. It maintains a record of each of the last 63 days' actual gallons used. And how many regenerations have been done since the unit was installed.

    It has a calendar override of the metering so the resin doesn't go too far between regenerations when the normal volume of water isn't used for whatever reason, which is hard on resin, especially if there is iron in the water. It's like an engine manufacturer saying to change the oil and filter every X miles, or 6 months, whichever comes first, to protect the engine.

    I've sold 1180+/- of these valves and had 22 problems and out of them, 4-6 were circuit boards and out of them, 2-3 were lightening strikes. The Clack WS-1 is very reliable and a much better valve than the Fleck 5600 or 2510 valves. I say that because I sold Fleck 5600 and 2510 all but exclusively for 18 years as a local dealer (until 2004), and I still sell some today but...

    The biggest and best reason to buy a Clack WS-1 is that it was designed by 3 ex Fleck engineers to be the easiest to program and repair when needed. Anyone with a pair of adjustable pliers can totally replace all of its 5 parts and have the water back on in under 30 minutes.

    It has the same piston, seals and spacers design as Fleck but all the 14 pieces all come out as 2 pieces in less than 5 seconds with nothing more than a finger tip, where all Fleck seals and spacers (4-5 of each) come out individually and most dealers use the special control valve model specific Fleck tools to take them out and put new ones in.

    Softeners are sized by cuft of resin. A 24K is a 3/4 cuft softener. ALL softeners have an adjustable K of capacity and it is dictated by the lbs of salt used per cuft of resin. The volume of resin dictates how many gpm can be run through the resin bed and all the hardness etc. will be removed; exceed that gpm and you get hardness through the resin.

    Chlorine is nowhere near as serious as potassium permanganate which if something goes wrong as it does and too much PP is used or final rinse can not flush all of it out of the filter, PP can easily be added to the water going to the fixtures.

    You do not need any specific and more expensive resin like C-249, the least expensive regular mesh resin is all you need. If you needed different resin, fine mesh or SST-60 would be the right kind and SST-60 is best. It does not foul as regular and fine mesh does and it does not have the pressure loss of fine mesh.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  6. #36

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    Andy, thank you for all the links. I will look those over.

    After talking with my husband I now have a better understanding as to why our water was so red and full of sediments last time we were out there. We had chlorinated the well and he had bypassed the carbon filter (to avoid it pulling out all the chlorine). Because of this all the gunk from either our well or the lines running to the house went into our plumbing and out the faucets. Which after thinking through everyone's advice I can't help but wonder if all the gunk from our well isn't going to defeat the purpose of all of this equipment. As soon as we put in a filter it doesn't take long for it to be covered in red deposits (either rust from the lines leading to the house or stuff from the well). Which has me wondering if we aren't just better off digging a new well (which in turn would hopefully mean no more sulfur bacteria and eliminate all this rust from entering our water lines). I will call a couple well service companies tomorrow and get their input. I know we still need to get a softener but maybe it would eliminate the bacteria and odor. Yes it will cost more but if we are already spending upwards of $2000 this would maybe be better for the long haul.

    Any thoughts?
    Thanks,
    C

  7. #37

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    Biermech & Gary, thanks for the specific info on the size of softener and resin. I'm still a little confused on the resin. One guy I spoke with today told me to go with the WS1 Clack because it has only 3 moving parts and it is piston driven. He also suggested going with the basic resin. So I am leaning towards the 40K tank (1.25 cuft Resin).

    Also, on the brine tank, is that just personal preference? Lastly, I still a little confused on the hookup. Here is a picture of what we have in our basement, my dad set us up with hookups (including 3 shutoff valves). How does the softener connect to the pvc he has provided? Will it be a flexible hose?

    THanks,
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