Why use purple primer on sche 40

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Kskier

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I am putting in some new 3" sche 40 drain pipe for a toilet, and I was told to use the purple primer before I glue the pieces together. Why do I need to do this, and do I apply the primer to both joints?

purple-primer.jpg
 

Terry

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It's plumbing code.

The primer cleans and softens the plastic.
Without the primer, the joint can fail.

The outside of the pipe, and the inside of the fitting gets primer and glue.
You assemble with a slight twist.
 

Jadnashua

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Yes...did you read the instructions?

The primer cleans crud off the pipe and removes the finish gloss, then the glue can soften the plastic. The pipes are then actually welded together by the now softened plastic. WHen the solvent evaporates, it becomes essentially one piece. No primer, and it may not make a good joint. Plus, some inspectors will fail an installation if they can't see the primer. There is a clear primer, but as noted, it may not be legal where you are.
 

Gary Swart

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It has been my understanding (and this may or may not be accurate) that primer is required to remove an outer coating and to clean the pipe. I was made purple so that inspectors could easily see that primer was used. It is required on both the pipe ends and the interior of the fittings. Some of this may be folklore, I would expect some of the old veterans to correct me.
 

Gary Swart

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It almost could be me! I was working on my sprinkler system one time and was on my belly with my head down in the trench when I knock over the open can of primer. I had a purple head and neck for awhile. Damn, it take a long time for that stuff to wear off.:D
 

Waterwelldude

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If you are not in the city or the county/code does not require it.
Don't use it. But only if you are not required to use it.

I know what the can says, but it will not let the pipe bond that good.
The cleaner does take off the pvc coating, but puts one of it's own on the pipe.
The two pipes will not bond that good if cleaner is used.

It is better to sand the ends to be glued.
Use 220 grit to sand the pipe with. Sand it only good enough to remove the shinny part or just enough to remove the glaze.

Cleaner is the biggest joke in the plumbing, when it comes to gluing pvc.


Travis
 

Redwood

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If you are not in the city or the county/code does not require it.
Don't use it. But only if you are not required to use it.

I know what the can says, but it will not let the pipe bond that good.
The cleaner does take off the pvc coating, but puts one of it's own on the pipe.
The two pipes will not bond that good if cleaner is used.

It is better to sand the ends to be glued.
Use 220 grit to sand the pipe with. Sand it only good enough to remove the shinny part or just enough to remove the glaze.

Cleaner is the biggest joke in the plumbing, when it comes to gluing pvc.


Travis

I'll just have to disagree with you...
It is a 2 step process...
Leave out one of the steps and failure of the joint is highly possible.
 

SewerRatz

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If you are not in the city or the county/code does not require it.
Don't use it. But only if you are not required to use it.

I know what the can says, but it will not let the pipe bond that good.
The cleaner does take off the pvc coating, but puts one of it's own on the pipe.
The two pipes will not bond that good if cleaner is used.

It is better to sand the ends to be glued.
Use 220 grit to sand the pipe with. Sand it only good enough to remove the shinny part or just enough to remove the glaze.

Cleaner is the biggest joke in the plumbing, when it comes to gluing pvc.


Travis

I have to disagree with you as well. I never had a properly primed and glued joint fail. It is a two step process. I just recently installed a new sump pump lid and a glue check valve. I forgot to install the lid before I glued the valve on, not even 45 seconds later I realized my mistake and tried to remove the glued and primed check valve from the pipe with no success. I ended up unscrewing the pipe from the pump and feeding it through the lid then back into the pump.
 

Waterwelldude

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PVC glue with cleaner. This has always been a good argument at lunch time...lol

I will not use cleaner when I am gluing pvc.
The cleaner is supposed to take off the wax layer.. It might, but it leaves a thin film of the cleaner itself. Any time a pipe has cleaner on it, it will not let the glue bond with the pvc.

A simple test. Take 2 pieces of pipe and a coupling. One one piece use cleaner, and the other, no cleaner. Glue them together with the coupling.
Let it sit over night if you want. Put the pipe in a vice with the coupling free.
Use a pipe wrench on the opposite pipe, and turn. The side with the cleaner will be the one that turn. Every time.

I have had this discussion with lots of plumbers. In some cases, it is in there rules they have to use cleaner to be up to code.

When we have a service call, and we see they used cleaner. 9 out of 10 times, that piece of pipe will have some kind of tie or restraint on it.

I myself will not use cleaner.


Travis
 

Redwood

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I've had several jobs repairing leaks in PVC DWV systems at 2 different houses where I'm 100% positive that no primer ever saw those pipes.

Both houses were McMansions with lots of baths. The owners have been given a proposal to redo the entire DWV system but instead are looking to sell and are addressing the leaks as the occur.

Skipping steps is not being nice to your customers.
As far as I'm concerned there is no debate.
 
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SewerRatz

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PVC glue with cleaner. This has always been a good argument at lunch time...lol

I will not use cleaner when I am gluing pvc.
The cleaner is supposed to take off the wax layer.. It might, but it leaves a thin film of the cleaner itself. Any time a pipe has cleaner on it, it will not let the glue bond with the pvc.

A simple test. Take 2 pieces of pipe and a coupling. One one piece use cleaner, and the other, no cleaner. Glue them together with the coupling.
Let it sit over night if you want. Put the pipe in a vice with the coupling free.
Use a pipe wrench on the opposite pipe, and turn. The side with the cleaner will be the one that turn. Every time.

I have had this discussion with lots of plumbers. In some cases, it is in there rules they have to use cleaner to be up to code.

When we have a service call, and we see they used cleaner. 9 out of 10 times, that piece of pipe will have some kind of tie or restraint on it.

I myself will not use cleaner.


Travis

Let me point you to what I said in this post https://terrylove.com/forums/showpost.php?p=190000&postcount=9

I even tried to undo my glued joint with a pipe wrench. Your primer must have been contaminated or inferior. As I said never had a failed joint when using glue and primer. Key is to make sure the glue and primer is in good shape and clean. I prefer Black Swan products for they have the fastest set time I came across, since I mostly do service plumbing.
 

Waterwelldude

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There are some that swear by cleaner, and some that will never use it.

It just comes back to that particular persons experience with it.
In my opinion, cleaner is the worst thing you can use on pvc that is to be glued.

When there is high pressure on a pipe with cleaner, it will come apart.

A customer was running some air lines,125psi. They kept coming apart. He was using cleaner.
I told him to stop using cleaner and sand it, he did, and as not blown a line yet.

I am not saying not to do anything. The glaze still needs to be removed.
I am just saying sanding is far better than any cleaner out there.


Travis

That why I say. It comes down to that persons experiences with cleaner.
 

SewerRatz

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There are some that swear by cleaner, and some that will never use it.

It just comes back to that particular persons experience with it.
In my opinion, cleaner is the worst thing you can use on pvc that is to be glued.

When there is high pressure on a pipe with cleaner, it will come apart.

A customer was running some air lines,125psi. They kept coming apart. He was using cleaner.
I told him to stop using cleaner and sand it, he did, and as not blown a line yet.

I am not saying not to do anything. The glaze still needs to be removed.
I am just saying sanding is far better than any cleaner out there.


Travis

That why I say. It comes down to that persons experiences with cleaner.

I have used the primer on high head high pressure pumps never had a joint blow apart. The Maintenance man that changed the pump originally was sanding and gluing the pipe and had issues till he called me. When I used the primer he said "Why are you using that junk? I heard the stuff is just a gimmick." After I was done we fired off the two 2HP pumps at the same time and the joints held tight. When he was doing it the pipes blew apart with one pump running.
 
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Redwood

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There are some that swear by cleaner, and some that will never use it.

It just comes back to that particular persons experience with it.
In my opinion, cleaner is the worst thing you can use on pvc that is to be glued.

When there is high pressure on a pipe with cleaner, it will come apart.

A customer was running some air lines,125psi. They kept coming apart. He was using cleaner.
I told him to stop using cleaner and sand it, he did, and as not blown a line yet.

I am not saying not to do anything. The glaze still needs to be removed.
I am just saying sanding is far better than any cleaner out there.


Travis

That why I say. It comes down to that persons experiences with cleaner.

Oh Boy!
That is not a problem of the solvent welding it is a misapplication of material!:eek:
PVC is not rated for use with compressed air and it has nothing to do with the pressure!

Page 4 from the link supplied in my post above.
DO NOT USE CHARLOTTE PIPE PRODUCTS FOR COMPRESSED AIR OR GASES
Charlotte Pipe and Foundry Company products are not intended to be used for distribution or storage of compressed air or gases. Use of Charlotte Pipe products in inappropriate applications could result in product failure, serious injury or death.
Air or Gas Testing - Not Recommended
Air or compressed gas test are sometimes performed instead of hydrostatic (water) test. DANGER: Charlotte Pipe and Foundry Company does not recommend air or gas testing, consistent with PPFA User Bulletin 4-80 and / or ASTM D 1785. Pipe and fitting materials under air or gas pressure can explode, causing serious injury or death. Charlotte Pipe will not be responsible or liable for injury or death to persons or damage to property or for claims for labor and / or material arising from any alleged failure of our products during testing with air or compressed gasses.

If your friend is doing this at a place of business you may want to bring the following links to his attention.

OSHA Hazard Information Bulletin on the Use of Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pipe in Above ground Installations
http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19901213.html
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20202
 
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SewerRatz

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How the heck did that smiley get into my post? Hmm somehow in my last post this got left out. Waterwelldude I have a question please do not get offended for me asking are you a licensed plumber in Texas?
 
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