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Thread: Hydrocare HC38 Thoughts???

  1. #16
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen View Post
    honestly, i don't understand this but someone said that there was no explanation how it works. here's a link http://www.hydrocareusa.com/content/technology/

    again, not sure i understand it but there's also a tab on their site to a couple of independent tests - that means a lot more to me than the testimonials they post.
    That was me.

    I went to the site and the first thing I saw was Theory of Operation. A theory is an unproven educated guess at best. The link to Tests Results then says Testimonials. A testimonial can be easily faked but it is supposed to be from someone that has used the product etc..
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  2. #17
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    I think I'll wait for the documentary.

  3. #18

    Default My opinion is that Hydrocare in NOT a Scam

    Hello, I am also a new poster to this forum. I found this while doing research on the Hydrocare products. I have been in the commercial POU water filtration business for almost 8 years and am investigating hard water treatment products to offer my customers other than the traditional salt brine technology.

    I am not a “plant” by Hydrocare, but I am going to defend them, based upon my research, against those on this forum who have made unsubstantiated claims that this product is a “scam” .

    First of all no one on this forum who made negative comments have indicated that they any first hand knowledge of the Hydrocare products. They have not stated that they have either tested the products in their business or homes or even know anyone who has. I am in the process of testing one of the HC-44 units in my home.

    Secondly, I have not read where anyone has directly contacted those who offer testimonials on the product, but some question the legitimacy of the testimonials. I have directly communicated with most of the Hydrocare provided testimonial providers to verify their legitimacy. I am satisfied that they are all real customers and/or dealers of the products. They all have used Hydrocare in their homes and businesses and stand by the claims made in the testimonials. Several are water treatment dealers and plumbers and report that their customers are just as satisfied with the Hydrocare product and claims.

    Thirdly, about the claims about phony independent research studies on the product, specifically about the study done by OnSpex; I have read and verified the complete report and conclusions on this testing done to determine if the Hydrocare technology will prevent lime scale build up on tank less water heaters. This report has both before and after pictures of the test subjects and concludes that after 90 days the unit with no hard water treatment had significant lime scale build up and water flow reductions while the unit with the Hydrocare HC-38 had no lime scale build up or water flow reduction.

    Finally, In my opinion many of the negative comments on this forum and others are being made by individuals who either sell of have some vested interests in the traditional salt brine water softeners industry and may feel threatened by this new technology. Imagine how horse buggy builders felt threatened, by the first automobiles. To label Hydrocare a scam without first hand experience or doing proper due diligence is wrong and if any thing borders on liable.

  4. #19
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    To label Hydrocare a scam without first hand experience or doing proper due diligence is wrong and if any thing borders on liable.
    It's amazing that two of you have just popped in here advertising this product out of the blue. But it's more amazing that you would pop into a Forum and threaten a bunch of knowledgable guys with liable.

    When you have some real proof, you can then try to impress the rest of us with this product.

  5. #20

    Question Not making any threats just looking for open minds

    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump View Post
    It's amazing that two of you have just popped in here advertising this product out of the blue. But it's more amazing that you would pop into a Forum and threaten a bunch of knowledgeable guys with liable.

    When you have some real proof, you can then try to impress the rest of us with this product.
    I am not threatening anyone with liable, but I will ask the questions again. Have you personally used this product, know anyone who has used it or talked to any end user who has provided testimonials about the product? Have you seen the independent research done on this product and/or talked to the researchers about their findings?

    I am currently testing Hydrocare on my home and have talked with end users, dealers and researchers on this product and in my humble opinion find nothing to discredit the claims they make.

    I guess you are like the old buggy manufactures and are threatened by this new technology. It seems to me that "you bunch of knowledgeable guys " need to open up your minds to the possibility that there may be some thing better than dumping salt brine down our sewer systems and into the environment in the treatment of hard water and lime scale.

  6. #21
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    I am not a “plant” by Hydrocare
    Your making it harder and harder for me to believe the above statement.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump View Post
    Your making it harder and harder for me to believe the above statement.
    I am beginning to think you are the "plant" for some water softener dealer association. hmmmmm. Still no answer to my three basic questions??

  8. #23
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    I am beginning to think you are the "plant" for some water softener dealer association. hmmmmm. Still no answer to my three basic questions??
    I'm just ribbing you. I hope you don't think I'm actually going to debate this with you.

  9. #24
    Radon Contractor and Water Treatment 99k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrydbhm View Post
    Finally, In my opinion many of the negative comments on this forum and others are being made by individuals who either sell of have some vested interests in the traditional salt brine water softeners industry and may feel threatened by this new technology. Imagine how horse buggy builders felt threatened, by the first automobiles. To label Hydrocare a scam without first hand experience or doing proper due diligence is wrong and if any thing borders on liable.
    I made negative / skeptical comments and I'm not threatened by newer technology that would obsolete brine ... why should I be? The WC&P recently published a story about alternate technologies to tradional softening and the results were very clear ... IT DOES NOT WORK. Even if you read a few positive testimonials, the claims were very subjective and the people making the testimonials just weren't too sure about the results ... very subjective "feel good" comments that had no scientific data. If you are a member of the WQA, the code of ethics clearly states that thou shall not market any products without factual data and verifiable scientifically valid test procedures. No data ... no sales.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by 99k View Post
    I made negative / skeptical comments and I'm not threatened by newer technology that would obsolete brine ... why should I be? The WC&P recently published a story about alternate technologies to tradional softening and the results were very clear ... IT DOES NOT WORK. Even if you read a few positive testimonials, the claims were very subjective and the people making the testimonials just weren't too sure about the results ... very subjective "feel good" comments that had no scientific data. If you are a member of the WQA, the code of ethics clearly states that thou shall not market any products without factual data and verifiable scientifically valid test procedures. No data ... no sales.
    I am sure that both WC&P and WQA did certifiable scientific studies on Hydrocare technology so what they tell their members must be the truth. . . come on. As others have said in this forum independent research (not controlled by WQA) has been done and the results verified that this technology does prevent and remove limescale buildup as claimed by its manufacture. The WQA is also the same water softener dealer lobby group that is fighting any legislation by state and local governments to control or ban the salt discharges by water softeners into our environment. I am still wondering why they call themselves the "Water Quality" Association.

  11. #26

    Default My first week observation using Hydrocare

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy CWS View Post

    So if, for academic purposes, we can agree that "they" reduce, remove, and inhibit calcium carbonate scale build up in plumbing, then great. However, I have never had one customer or prospect request my services to "get rid" of the scale build up in there pipes. Mostly because there is little or no evidence that there is that problem.

    People request water treatment for all the other benefits (won't dribble on those) associated with water softening, which scale inhibitors can not manage, thus causing customers to become very disappointed in expectations of their amazing no-salt product.

    Besides, how DO you determine that it IS working? Cut your plumbing up every six moths to inspect scale reduction? You can't tell by seeing fewer spots on dishes, shower walls, or less rusty toilets, soap use, softer fabrics...oops, I'm dribbling again...all the things that consumers appreciate and want and whose benefits are noticed immediately.

    Andy Christensen, CWS-II
    Hi Andy,

    I do not have the long experience in water softening that you have, however I can report on my personal observation after one week of installing the HC-44 Hydrocare unit. It appears that we are getting most of the benefits that traditional salt brine water softeners provide that you have said above we would not notice to determine if the hard water is truly being treated by the Hydropath technology. The one big negative for us that we are not getting is that slimy never feeling clean feeling when we shower. I am keeping a weekly journal of our observations and following is the first week. I know this is not scientific but again it is just our observations.

    Thank you

    Terry Doane
    Alabama Pure Water Company.

    Background:

    1. Hydrocare HC-44 unit installed on July 15, 2009 on cold water line to water heater. Total installation time took less than 5 minutes.

    2. Our Home is 4 ½ years old with no previous water treatment and is 2700 sq feet with full 3 bathrooms.

    3. Our city Water has a TDS of 168 ppm and 12 grains of hardness per gallon.

    4. We have had experience in a previous home with salt brine water softeners and both my wife and I did not like the slimy never feeling clean feel on our skin of the treated water.

    Weekly results:

    End of week one:
    • Noticed immediate personal hygiene changes that included less shampoo on hair and both my wife and I believe our hair and skin to be softer feeling. The hand soap lathers more without the slimy feel like our previous water softener. I have stopped using my hair conditioner as well.
    • We have a black mate finish granite sink in the kitchen that no longer has white water spots and film. The white film that previously built up in the sink and around the base of the plumbing fixtures has not reappeared after initial cleaning. In the past we had to clean with Kaboom product weekly. (I will miss Billy Mays he got us started on Kaboom years ago.)
    • Stopped using Jet dry in dishwasher and found no water spots on glassware or dishes.
    • Our master bath has antique bronze finish on plumbing fixtures and the shower glass frame. Prior to test we cleaned the shower with Kaboom to remove any old lime scale build up, something we had to do on a weekly basis prior to test. Noticed very few hard water spots on shower glass and none on the dark frame. There is no need to clean with Kaboom at this time.
    • The toilet in the less used basement bathroom had a hard water ring in it prior to test and noticed that it has disappeared after 6 days of Hydrocare installation.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy CWS View Post
    I'll remain in the business that I know works and causes successful solutions to real water issues proven over and over. Good luck on your water.
    Andy
    Andy,

    In an earlier post you stated:

    "So if, for academic purposes, we can agree that "they" reduce, remove, and inhibit calcium carbonate scale build up in plumbing, then great. However, I have never had one customer or prospect request my services to "get rid" of the scale build up in there pipes. Mostly because there is little or no evidence that there is that problem.

    People request water treatment for all the other benefits (won't dribble on those) associated with water softening, which scale inhibitors can not manage, thus causing customers to become very disappointed in expectations of their amazing no-salt product."

    If inhibiting hard water scale build up in pipes, water heaters and appliances is not the main reason for installing water softener, then what is? Salt brine softeners do a great job in inhibiting future scale build up but they do not remove already present scale in the plumbing systems.

    There is still no way to get around the biggest downside to salt brine water softeners, what to do with the salt brine discharges into our sewers and eventually environment from all of the frequent recharging necessary to soften the hard water. I am sure that you are or should be that many states and local municipalities have or are debating legislation to limit or ban entirely salt discharges into public sewer systems. California is debating a bill this summer that will allow all cities to set limits or ban entirely salt discharges from home water softeners. Already several California cities have banned salt water softener uses and new installation. Other states like Arizona, Oregon, Washington and Michigan are debating similar legislation. In 2001 Texas banned water softener salt discharges into all on site sewer systems, (septic tanks) because of the salt pollution going into the ground water.

    I do hope that your business continues to thrive in Ohio as I am sure your company and you are good to work and deal with. I believe that in the future unless alternatives to disposing safely the salt water discharges are found the traditional salt water softener may be on an endangered species list.

    Finally to the uninformed naysayers about the Hydropath technology. I remember when Billy Mays first went on TV promoting a product that would remove stains and whiten whites without chlorine bleach and its bad side effects. A friend of mine was a regional brand manager for Clorox and he predicted this product would never be accepted by the public and would be proven to be a scam. He even said his company had tested the product and it didn't work as advertised. After all it was being pitched on late night TV with all the other scams. That product is now on every laundry shopping isle across the country and is now a household word, OXICLEAN. In fact Clorox has even produced their own version of this product but lags way behind OXICLEAN in market share. In OXICLEAN's early days Clorox debated even buying out OXIclean but again decided it would never catch on. After all Clorox was a tried and proven product that had been around forever and that consumers would never change. It took a long time before my wife would try it in our laundry, but once she did we never bought chlorine bleach again.
    Last edited by terrydbhm; 07-24-2009 at 08:49 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #28

    Thumbs up Update Hydrocare test in my home week 2

    My Home Hydrocare Test Results


    Background:

    1. Hydrocare HC-44 unit installed on July 15, 2009 on cold water line to water heater. This is the manufacture’s recommended installation location as it will provide the strongest signal directly into the water heater. According to Hydrocare, their technology works both up and down stream and is not dependant upon any water flow and thusly it will provide whole house hard water treatment from the water heater installation. Total installation time took less than 5 minutes.

    2. Our Home is 4 ½ years old with no previous water treatment and is 2700 sq feet with full 3 bathrooms.

    3. Our city Water has a TDS of 168 ppm and 12 grains of hardness per gallon.

    4. We have had experience in a previous home with salt brine water softeners and both my wife and I did not like the slimy never feeling clean feel on our skin of the treated water. Some people think the slimy feel is a clean feel but most of the people I know with salt water softeners give this as their biggest complaint. One friend of mine says “it’s like you can not rinse off the soap”.

    Weekly Results and Observations:

    End of week one:
    • Noticed immediate personal hygiene product changes that included less shampoo on hair and both my wife and I believe our hair and skin to be softer feeling. The hand soap lathers more without the slimy feel like our previous water softener. I have stopped using my hair conditioner as well.
    • We have a black mate finish granite sink in the kitchen that no longer has white water spots and film. The white film that previously built up in the sink and around the base of the plumbing fixtures has not reappeared after initial cleaning. In the past we had to clean with Kaboom product weekly. (I will miss Billy Mays he got us started on Kaboom years ago.)
    • Stopped using Jet dry in dishwasher and found no water spots on glassware or dishes.
    • Our master bath has antique bronze finish on plumbing fixtures and the shower glass frame. Prior to test we cleaned the shower with Kaboom to remove any old lime scale build up, something we had to do on a weekly basis prior to test. Noticed very few hard water spots on shower glass and none on the dark frame. There is no need to clean with Kaboom at this time.
    • The toilet in the less used basement bathroom had a hard water ring in it prior to test and noticed that it has disappeared after 6 days of Hydrocare installation.

    Week Two:
    • Pretty much the same observations as in week one with some exceptions as noted.
    • Did notice some evaporative spotting in the shower glass in the master bath. Having talked with other Hydrocare users, this is to be expected for the first month or so, as the Hydrocare unit is removing the old built up lime scale which passes through the shower in solution with the water. The big difference VS the untreated water before, is that the evaporative spots DO NOT stick to the glass but can be removed with a damp cloth with out the use of Kaboom or other harsher cleaning chemicals. The spots are more of a powdery residue instead of a hard scaly build up.
    • The built up lime scale on our shower head has reduced by about 50% in the 2 weeks.
    • On Saturday, I washed my wife’s car which is dark charcoal grey color and I noticed hardly any water spots on the car. Before Hydrocare I would wash the car in the driveway and then pull into the garage to dry to avoid water spots. The few water spots this time were like the spots in the shower and came off with a damp towel.

  14. #29

    Default

    I really want to believe that this Hydrocare system works, but having a tough time. The unit attaches to a cold water pipe and uses radio waves. That's fine and has been debated already. The claim that jumps out at me is this one:

    • The toilet in the less used basement bathroom had a hard water ring in it prior to test and noticed that it has disappeared after 6 days of Hydrocare installation.

    So, I am to believe that the radio wave extends all the way to a toilet bowl and breaks down existing scale? I'm not a plumber but I am sure that there is no connection between the water sitting in a toilet bowl and the supply water pipe. Even if you flush, the incoming water itself can break down scale?

    If someone can explain this, I would appreciate it.

  15. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crush View Post
    I really want to believe that this Hydrocare system works, but having a tough time. The unit attaches to a cold water pipe and uses radio waves. That's fine and has been debated already. The claim that jumps out at me is this one:

    • The toilet in the less used basement bathroom had a hard water ring in it prior to test and noticed that it has disappeared after 6 days of Hydrocare installation.

    So, I am to believe that the radio wave extends all the way to a toilet bowl and breaks down existing scale? I'm not a plumber but I am sure that there is no connection between the water sitting in a toilet bowl and the supply water pipe. Even if you flush, the incoming water itself can break down scale?

    If someone can explain this, I would appreciate it.
    I can not explain it but all I am doing is keeping a record of my observations and reporting the same. After 2 weeks the hard water ring has not reappeared, In this one toilet I am not doing any other cleaning just to see what happens.

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