Hydrocare HC38 Thoughts???

Well, actually about 5 years back I did just that with another of the miracle products who's name shall remain anonymous due to legal reasons. Returning it was difficult at best and near impossible though through threats of a lawsuit I did eventually get them to give me my money back.

Every single test run on the unit came back negative. Water quality tests done during the 8 months the unit was in service showed absolutely no measurable change in water conditions. Hardness at 5ppm stayed at 5ppm, Iron, manganese, and ph were also unchanged. The problem is that those that tout the product all say that you can not use standard tests because the unit does not change the water chemistry along with a bunch of other mumbo jumbo.. At any rate I, me myself, noticed no difference in water quality, feel, scaling, hardness, taste or anything else. I would gladly put the hydrocare to the test also but two things stop me. One is that no matter what I get for results, unless they are positive, someone who has a vested interest in the product is going to dispute the results. And two, form past experience, getting a refund is a huge pain in the ........

Peter Griffin said:

If it's working for you, and you believe it was a good purchase than put a smile on your face and be happy. I however, will stick with ion exchange. A method that is scientifically proven to work

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Actually for me the jury is still out on this product. My initial impression is that there does seem to be some impact, but that being said I have not seen the kind of results that others have mentioned. So I will investigate further and try to devise more quantifiable observations. I'm a chemistry teacher so the learning aspect of this has been fun for me and I personally have appreciated your skepticism because it has helped me to learn more. What have I learned so far. Well, I have two forms of calcium carbonate in my lab; calcium carbonate powder and calcium carbonate marble chips. With some force the chips can be crushed into a fine powder with a mortar and pestle. Now both forms are pure white in color. In most cases the scale I observe from my house water supply is not pure white in color. Why is that significant? Well the author of the website you mention brings up that point, which means that there are others variables that might be at work. A true scientific theory must consider all variables. I have tried to do a fair amount of research on this issue and since I do have a most of the chemicals and equipment available to me I'm first looking to verify what I have read and then take it from there. As I said, for me this is fun.

wkb2texans said:

I've read through nearly this entire thread ... since 2007 ... and haven't yet seen where anyone of you "experts" have tried these devices ... or even spoke with anyone who had (other than others who posted here.) Did I miss those postings? If so, I apologize. If not, read on.

I have no clue if these devices work or not ... I do know they're being advertised/sold widely (particulalry Easywater ... Beck and Hannity are wearing me out on that issue) ... and I do know there's much anectodal evidence that they do work. Of course, what we're missing is scientific proof. And I don't know if there is any. But I do know that there's also no scientific proof that these devices (Easywater and the Hydro, whatever it is) don't work.

So, I'd suggest that one of you experts in here buy one of these (they both have moneyback guarantees and solid BBB ratings, so you can give them back if you wish) ... and give them a personal test. I would think that after 2+ years of yapping about whether or not they work ... that someone might really want to see if they do or don't. Of course, that'd mean there'd be the possibility of some tails going between some of those expert legs, now wouldn't it?

Just my 2 cents ... as a first-time poster ... with no axe to grind/no dog in the fight.

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That is exactly what I am in the process of doing. The trick is developing objective/quantifiable tests that provide results in a short amount of time. Since scale does not build up overnight it is difficult to obtain definitive, objective and quantifiable results right away. This is one of the main points Peter brings up and he rightly points out that statements like "the water feels better" are subjective (to be fair that is not the only claims that have been made). Being a chemistry teacher I have certain chemicals, equipment and knowledge at my disposal which I'll try to make useful in my investigation.

OK, I've been living with a HC38 in my home now for about 6 months. Here's my report:

This is not a Miracle Machine! However! Here is what it did, and does not do for me. My iron staining in toilets, no help. My problem there is so minor that I don’t really care. My Lime scale problem, no longer a problem! Notice I did not say GONE! I said no longer a problem! There is a big difference. I still get spots. Now they wipe right off. Most of the scale buildup in my home has gone away. There is a little still around the edge of my kitchen faucets but not nearly as bad as before and no new buildup since. My shower chrome and other chrome has shined up to just minor spots that were there from the beginning. It looks like what I was used to with city water and I find it acceptable.

I have successfully procrastinated on fixing the leak that had limed itself shut on the webstone pipe kit on my Rinnai (but reappeared in about a month after the hyrocare went in) I have two – almost 3 years old and they were in a hotel for year prior. They have never been flushed and never popped an LC code. (Long story on the Webstone kit but…use JOMAR! ARGH!)

My truck still spots when I wash it but they too wipe right off. No need to wax or re-wash if the phone rings. In fact If I leave the spots on, first rain washed them all off. Again – Acceptable to me.

Overall, I am quite pleased with the system. It works as I expected it to work. If you expect “soft water” you’ll be disappointed. If like me, you don’t like soft water and just want the “Cement” to stop getting all over everything, I think you’ll be pleased. I would buy it again in a minute. I'll check back in to update later in the summer.

Gary is a very highly respected water treatment guy who’s opinion I value greatly. If you want treated water, soft water, have iron, acid, sulfur, or sediment trouble, this device is not for that. See him. This device does not change anything about the chemical makeup of your water. Period. That’s not what it is supposed to do.
Mr. Love. I am very much enjoying your site! It is a great site. your tankless forum is a much needed thing on the web and helps focus information.

OK. I just ordered the the Hydro 44 I think it's called. Here is part of the email I received.

I just wanted to thank you for your HydroCare purchase. I am sure you will
enjoy the unit for many years to come!

Your unit will arrive Fed Ex ground within the week.

I have no expertice in water softening or anything related. I will post on this site what I think about the product and if it works for me or not. I do know that I have done some research and a few states have already banned salt based water softners because of all the waste they produce and is sent into the sewer system. So I didn't want to buy something that may be banned in a few years, let alone the increase in my water bill for the hundreds of gallons of water needed to "clean" the water softner every few months. Anyway I will let you know when I receive it....how easy it is to install...and what my "unprofessional" opinion of the product is. Stay Tuned.
JP

They will never ban a product that does not work

JPHarley said:

I have no expertice in water softening or anything related. I will post on this site what I think about the product and if it works for me or not. I do know that I have done some research and a few states have already banned salt based water softners because of all the waste they produce and is sent into the sewer system. So I didn't want to buy something that may be banned in a few years, let alone the increase in my water bill for the hundreds of gallons of water needed to "clean" the water softner every few months. Anyway I will let you know when I receive it....how easy it is to install...and what my "unprofessional" opinion of the product is. Stay Tuned.
JP

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I do not know of any state that has banned water softeners.

California included. Recently there was a law signed in Calf. that will allow banning of softener discharge into public sewers and some 'districts' may ban softeners to stop the discharge as one has in the past by promising not to raise taxes to renew their present sewer treatment plant, but then attempted to anyway but people rebelled and that was dropped after a few thousand had residents voluntarily had given up their softeners.

So what States are you talking about banning softeners?

I suspect that the purpose of the post was to bring the thread back to the first few Google hits.

Me, I believe it's as he says and he just bought one because he doesn't like the idea of a water softener.

So what is the verdict?

Do they work or not?
How much do they cost?

I have a Culligan system that was here when we bought the house. It is old and needs new brine (approx $1500). We don't bother to put salt in it anymore since it doesn't work right and I am not sure if it regenerates anymore. If I try to turn it off we have no water supply to the house. If these really work it would be better than filling with salt or potassium all the time.

If I missed the verdict please forgive me, I skimmed a few pages but then figured it was 16 pages of bickering. Just like it is on every other forum I found.

I would say that they do not work, have now seen where they work or pass the WQA testing...

New Brine tank? take the guts out of the one you have and buy a different brine tank on some web site for under 100.00

First, the units are not softeners. They don't advertise that they soften the water and they don't. What they advertise is that they reduce scaling in pipes and difficult to remove hardness deposits on fixtures and surfaces.

If you want soft water--that is water without calcium and magnesium in the water and your water supply has these elements in it -- then you need a conventional softener. If your only concern is scaling and deposits then the unit might help. The lack of independent testing to suport the claims would prevent me from buying one.

As to cost you will need to find that for yourself--I think it depends on the specific model and the seller.

Hi !! Scott d plumber my name is bo the plumer and this is my first time on this web site and I have so many things I would like to talk about .! First a little about me I don't consider myself a master plumber I have a while to go, I just finished with a new Marriott hotel seven stories and 163 rooms with 3 broilers on the roof with return line and 140 degree hot water for kitchen with mixing values for the rest of the hotel ,on the first floor we installed two 300 collegen water softner with 3 inch cooper lines and a buster pump. The hotel has been open for about a month now and the softner is still on bypass because we where getting discoloration out of the softners . Collegen tried to rebed the softners and it did not work this is the first time I have ever seen softners or even known how they work! The head guy from Collegen said he will not rebed the tanks again until he gets the test results back from the water samples he got from the tanks. It turns out that we got contaminated bedding and they said they are waiting for the new bedding to be deliverd before we can clean out the tanks one more time.The top service guy that was out there tought me alot about how the system works ,and i got a good crash corse on hard water last week I was at the plumbing supply house and I saw this hydrocare box on the counter and asked them if it works and he said I dont know,then he said that one of his co workers bought one for his house so then I asked him did he say it works he said yes but he gets discoleration out of his fixtures and he has to clean the airators (screens) on the faucets. Then I asked him how much was it ?. I almost fell off my stool when he told me the price ! So then I asked him what would be my companys price because they give him a big discount because he buys so much material,but the price stayed the same witch never happens ,so that told me that there is something differnt about this company or product I was not going to spend that kind of money until I knew more so I just left with the flyer and then it hit me why dont I call the collegen pro and he said im not going to say it does or doesnt work but I should ask them for the documataion and flow rate, in other words not much help I am still not sure what to think about this thing, when I called the company and asked for that stuff they said it has no flow rate because it sends a signal and its used by schools ,hospitals and so on. I just want it to keep from destroying all of the fixtures in the houses and clean out the water heater.Do you think it is worth trying or am I a sucker and I am making some guy in Newyork rich!.

If you have gone over this thread, there are those that say that they do and there are those that say that they do not work.
With that said,, there has yet to be a WQA testing of this type of equipment... I have talked to people around here and gotten mixed reviews of the mag or elec systems but there is more Iron in the water than any thing else .. that could be why many do not work..

Was the dis colored water that you are talking about because of a softener or this hydrocare type system?

Akpsdvan said:

If you have gone over this thread, there are those that say that they do and there are those that say that they do not work.
With that said,, there has yet to be a WQA testing of this type of equipment... I have talked to people around here and gotten mixed reviews of the mag or elec systems but there is more Iron in the water than any thing else .. that could be why many do not work..

Was the dis colored water that you are talking about because of a softener or this hydrocare type system?

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I was told about the color from the hydrocare and i saw for my self the color from the softner

Hydrocare or hydroflow home use

We have had one now for 10 months. The first few months were a nuisance, with lots of white stuff and some red stuff coming out of our taps. We were told by Hydro FLow in Barrie Ontario to use Lemishine with our dishwasher and that the red would stop within a few months. We have had very little problem since then. There might be specs of white, but they come off when you dry the tops of the dishes. There are no spots on the vertical surfaces. We had some of our piping changed this past winter and they were clear. We had some changed a couple of years ago and there had been some buildup of stuff on the inside.

We went from the water softener because I could no longer lift the bags down to where our softener was and it was becoming very expensive (1 bag every week).

Our water tasted like chalk before, we can now brush our teeth with it without a problem.

I like that our bathroom fittings no longer develop permanent water spots on them, and any spots can be removed with regular cleaning. There was also a lessoning of the water marks (and CLR did not remove them prior to using the Hydroflow!)

We are on well water, and with years that there is little water, I hated listening to what little water we had going to the septic.

So does it work?- I like it better than the water softener. Our water is not super soft, it no longer tastes like chalk, I no longer carry those ridiculously heavy bags, I have fewer water spots on my bathroom fixtures and my water feels the same 7 days a week. By the way, I have now paid for my Hydroflow by not having bought the salt for 10 months.

My answer is yes.

well that's just super. Case closed

After having spent a few hours reading this whole thread, I would like to offer the following to the believers and the non-believers…
There is a very easy way to determine if this technology actually works, and that is to conduct a small home experiment. First, find a water pipe (somewhere) which is heavily scaled and scrape out as much of the scale as possible (at least one teaspoon full), and dump this scale into an ordinary drinking water glass (hopefully not including any magnetic particles). Fill the glass about 3/4 full with ordinary tap water and stir the contents thoroughly, then allow the particles to sink to the bottom of the glass. Procure and place beside the drinking glass any magnetic, electromagnetic, electronic, psychic or proprietary device of your choice which purports to affect limescale buildup in any way. When you are satisfied that your device is properly positioned, stir your mixture again and note the effect of having the “device” in the presence of your scale mixture. If the scale mixture does not sink to the bottom of the glass and behave exactly as if the device was not present, rush out and buy as many as you can, because you are about to get very wealthy very quickly. While you are at it, better call a few of those science television shows like “Discover” because you are about to become famous…

Questions? Check out your experimental, repeatable results from above and act accordingly…

enb, you are missing the point. First off you have to have blind faith. Second off you have to suspend the laws of physics and third off you have to not care if the results can be proved or not. Your test would only make sense to logically thinking people.

Wally Hays said:

enb, you are missing the point. First off you have to have blind faith. Second off you have to suspend the laws of physics and third off you have to not care if the results can be proved or not. Your test would only make sense to logically thinking people.

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Well, I really wanted to get rich quick with this, but I wanted it to work so I could become famous too! I have found that vinegar works well, but it is slow...