Cpvc

[jimbo]

I wa visiting my brother in VA last week ( remember Kansas?) and he is in the midst of a large addition ...master suite w/ 2 toilets,lavs, whirlpool and shower stall. Plumber just had finised the rough in. It is all CPVC, which I had never seen installed before.

Questions:

1. It all looks very flimsy, especially at the stub outs. Didn't seem to be supported much. Did I miss something?

2. It looks small, especially the supply to the whirlpool fills. Do they tend to use smaller sizes with this stuff.

3. The shower valve has copper tubes coming out, which seem to be glued directly to the CPVC! Is there an insert in the copper to accept this?


Again, this is all Greek to me, because CPVC was never really used in the city. There is some out in the sticks, mostly modular homes. New construction seems to be all PEX if not copper.


As an aside, brother told me he had specified Toto Carroltons to the builder, who told the plumber, but did not supply him with a spec. sheet. They plumbed the supply stub outs at 5½ OC from waste. I knew that this was not right, so I downloaded a rough-in sheet from Toto website; they faxed it over to the general. Fortunately, the drywall is not up, so this will be easy to fix. But I saved somebody a few bucks by pointing this out.

[hj]

Some plumbers use a copper transition which the CPVC glues to, while others bring the CPVC out of the wall and use a slip on valve.

They often use the CPVC as if it were copper tubing, but since the i.d. is much smaller the capacity is severely limited.

They could not glue the CPVC directly to the copper so you must be looking at the transition tubes.

[LonnythePlumber]

One of my biggest shocks was learning that everyone doesn't use copper or PEX. That new homes in some areas are done in CPVC. I understand the water quality issues now but it's still a surprise.

[Watertec]

We've been using cpvc in new construction in Md. for 15 years.

Originally, it was brittle and one had to be very carefull when cutting it if it was cold.

The chemistry of the piping compound has been greatly improved upon, and it now is very workable in the coldest temps.

The other issue was noise. Many guys used those plastic prenailed "talon" hangers, and nailed the pipe tight to the wood. The hanger manufacturers have devised better hangers that hold the pipe an 1/8th inch or so off any structure, but the old style hangersw can still be used if nailed "loosely".

I used to be a real copper fan myself, but with the pH issues, and the improvement in the cpvc, I'm sold on cpvc.

I've never used pex, but am a little gunshy considering the polybutylene fiasco, and the non use of a mechanical fastener at the joint.

[Terry]

PEX?

It's been used in Europe for thirty years and going strong.
I like it. I don't know which brand is best, feedback from other plumbers would be nice. I've been using Wirsbo Aquapex.

[jwray]

Replies to Terry's post may cover this, but I thought I would throw in a couple more specific questions.

I'm in the process of a major renovation of an 80+ year old house that will include ultimately replacing all the plumbing. For the supply side this includes all the way from the meter to the fixture. I live in the Southwest part of Virginia if that makes a difference in your answer to my question. I have heard that soil PH in some parts of the country is a factor.

What type of supply pipe mat'l would you use and why? I guess the answer might be different for different portions, i.e. meter to the house vs. inside the house.

Also, if your preference inside the house is CPVC or PEX how do you stub out and connect to the stops? Use the same mat'l, transition to copper, something else?

I have experience joining copper and CPVC and I think I could figure out the PEX. Just want to use the best material for the job if I'm going to put all the time, effort, and $ into the project.

Thanks,
Joel

[LonnythePlumber]

I have a poster on Bob Villa's plumbing forum. He is evidently a plumber in San Diego and says he is replacing hundreds of systems of PEX and other flexible plastic piping primarily due to rodents eating the pipe. He feels everyone knows this and it's common sense. He also says the fittings and crimp rings fail. I feel he is making an overstatement but it is disturbing. We have been installing PEX in hundreds of homes for several years without problem.