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Thread: 10 year old well suddenly Cloudy

  1. #31
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H2o View Post
    Gary,
    you use Superfund sights as an example but wells for drinking purposes are not installed around these sights for obvious reasons.
    I used that example to show you that contaminates go right through earth/dirt into the groundwater. And now you say it can't happen with small amounts because they "break down". The EPA, all states and me say you're wrong that small amounts don't get to groundwater but...

    What do they break down to and where do those things go if not down into the groundwater as soon as it rains and water that is percolating down through the earth finds them?

    And wells are installed outside the area of contamination super fund sites. The problem is that plumes of contaminates contimue to migrate until the site is cleaned up, including the groundwater plumes (as you know).

    Quote Originally Posted by H2o View Post
    You try to make me sound like an idiot...
    You are the one saying the earth/dirt is a good filter, I'm pointing out the fallacy in that thinking. And you're digging yourself a deeper hole by continuing to talk about that now by splitting hairs as to how much contaminate, for how long, and how close to the well etc., and blaming me for how you sound!!!

    Question for you. How far away from a correctly constructed well can someone pour a couple gallons of contaminate like gasoline or oil on the ground and not have it contaminate the well? Is two gals too much to be thought of as "a small amount"? Define by volume a "small amount".

    Quote Originally Posted by H2o View Post
    I find your comments about water well professionals to be very rude.
    Please copy/paste those comments in a reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by H2o View Post
    I am not here to promote anything but safe drinking water standards and to advise people on their well water. I am not selling anything so why would i need a link to a website or my name.
    Then YOU should want to be accurate beyond any doubt. I'm doing my best to help you obtain that accuracy.

    I didn't suggest or mention you having a web site, I said it was good for your business for you to remain anonymous. That was so people wouldn't know who was making such statements about the earth being a good filter of contaminates.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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  2. #32
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    Does anyone remember what the original post was?

    I think H2O's point was that if the well case is not properly sealed to the bedrock then contaminates carried by surface water can run down beside the case and quickly enter the well. Though I have seen this situation happen before, cloudy water was not what showed up, coliform bacteria was. There are countless studies done by the EPA regarding ground water pollution form various sources. Though under ideal conditions it is thought that 10' of clean sand is capable of filtering most pollutants, if the sand is continually subjected to those same pollutants it will eventually become saturated to the point where the pollutants will be carried into the aquifer. So the question as to how much gasoline can be dumped and how far from the well would depend on a lot of variables such as soil type, saturation level, proximity to the well case as well as the depth of the aquifer.

  3. #33
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    No mechanical filter media (other than carbon), sand, soil etc, is going to filter chemicals if water is going down through it to the groundwater. And if you think about it, sand and gravel wells that are constructed correctly still come up contaminated. So do sand point wells.
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 11-06-2009 at 08:08 PM.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #34
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    Peter,
    thanks for seeing the simplicity in my point.

    Gary,
    i don't think i will continue with you because you seem to be very one sided. I can't believe that a person being in the water treatment trade makes the comment that the earth is not a good filter. Maybe you didn't know that clay is an anion and is also very impermeable. There are layers of clay in the ground that trap contaminants and keep them reaching the ground water, just like bentonite and cement grout which is used to seal wells. If held back by something like sand or clay a lot of cantaminants can simply evaporate into the air just like water does. Isn't sand an excellent filter media?? You seem to be very edgy and impulsive. You make these rude comments about well drillers but you probably have never drilled a water well in your life so how is it that you can comment about how a well should be drilled or sealed? My big question is, how come you seem to be involved in all these arguments with people??? It looks like this thread turned into crap as soon as someone suggested something other than your water treatment.

    H2o
    Last edited by H2o; 11-07-2009 at 05:04 AM.

  5. #35
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    From my perspective, people are what they are. You take things with a grain of salt and a little understanding. Gary is Gary. He is also a wealth of knowledge and someone I would trust to shoot straight when it comes to water treatment. some of his plumbing advice I might find a bit dubious but when it comes to water treatment, he knows his stuff. Why does everything have to turn into a chest beating Viking Fest? the thing about public forums is that sometimes you get good advice and sometimes you don't and anyone with an opinion is free to post. I think we have already lost enough good members here to these issues. Let's all put it to rest and save the condemnations for private messages.

  6. #36
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H2o View Post
    Peter,
    thanks for seeing the simplicity in my point.
    I see the simplicity also. Simply put, you're wrong about the earth being a good filter but... The Yankees just won the World Series and many people dislike them, including me since the mid 1950s. But they sure can play baseball. I dislike them because I've always thought their success is mostly (or was) based on them having the most money to buy the best players. And I've always been for the under dog anyway. I have a feeling that you like the Red Sox. Anyway, I am just a simple guy that many people here don't like, and they do their best to beat up on me. But kinda like the Yankees, I sure can play ball with'em and usually they aren't good sports when we're done playing the games they start.

    Quote Originally Posted by H2o View Post
    Gary,
    i don't think i will continue with you because you seem to be very one sided. I can't believe that a person being in the water treatment trade makes the comment that the earth is not a good filter. Maybe you didn't know that clay is an anion and is also very impermeable. There are layers of clay in the ground that trap contaminants and keep them reaching the ground water, just like bentonite and cement grout which is used to seal wells. If held back by something like sand or clay a lot of cantaminants can simply evaporate into the air just like water does. Isn't sand an excellent filter media??
    One sided, yes you're right, I am one sided. I'm on the side of correct information being given to the members here.

    I figured you'd get into confined aquifers sooner or later, and here you are into it but, a confining layer is not the same thing as "the earth is a good filter". But tell me, groundwater above a confining layer like clay, how does that water get contaminated?

    Clay being an anion, what does that have to do with this? What does caly have t odo with your comment and debate that the earth is a good filter? I say it is a diversion because you didn't answer the questions about the distance from a well and how much of the contaminant wouldn't contaminate a nearby well.

    Yes sand is a great particulate filter as long as the particles are large enough to be filtered out by the sand being used. Meaning that all other smaller particles will go right through it but, it does not filter petroleum or petroleum products or any chemicals. And if you think I'm wrong, do some research and prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by H2o View Post
    You seem to be very edgy and impulsive. You make these rude comments about well drillers but you probably have never drilled a water well in your life so how is it that you can comment about how a well should be drilled or sealed?
    I can't prove it but I'm sitting here smiling and actually laughing every once in awhile. Like above when I see you going into confined aquifers without mentioning the words. We had that discussion a few months ago. Also, maybe you can tell, I love a good debate. This debate isn't about me drilling wells or if I have ever drilled one, it's about your totally incorrect comment that the earth is a good filter.

    I can't find any rude remarks that I've made in any of my replies in this thread, please copy/paste them in a reply. And since I know you can't find any, why the lies? You must mistakenly think that others will believe them. That claim got a guy banned from here a while back. Lies did in another. Personal attacks did in others.

    Quote Originally Posted by H2o View Post
    My big question is, how come you seem to be involved in all these arguments with people??? It looks like this thread turned into crap as soon as someone suggested something other than your water treatment.
    Well of course it looks like that to you and I'm giving you what you wanted. And don't Pelosi me, how's it going for you so far?

    If ya want, next we can get into Coliform bacteria contamination and you can tell me how good a filter the earth is and that if the well is constructed correctly there won't be no Coliform in your wells on'n on. And I'll tell you the source can be any distance from the well, miles actually, and the construction of the well makes no difference as long as teh bacteria are viable when they arrive in the groundwater in the well's recovery area, or the well's wellhead protection area.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  7. #37
    Geologist sjsmithjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    A true statement; Any contaminate from A to Z (Arsenic to Zinc and anything in between) can be removed or reduced to below harmful levels by common residential water treatment equipment.
    Are you including inorganic, organic, and biological contaminants at any concentration under any possible hydrogeologic condition in that statement?
    Last edited by sjsmithjr; 11-08-2009 at 04:31 AM.
    -Sam Smith
    Licensed Professional Geologist - AL, TN, KY

  8. #38
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsmithjr View Post
    Are you including inorganic, organic, and biological contaminants at any concentration under any possible hydrogeologic condition in that statement?
    Should I have said "commonly found in residential groundwater"?

    Why are you asking?
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 11-08-2009 at 10:50 AM. Reason: added question
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #39
    Geologist sjsmithjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Should I have said "commonly found in residential groundwater"?

    Why are you asking?
    I was surprised to see you present an inaccurate statement as factual in your earlier post.

    Anyhow, water treatement does have it's place although it does nothing to prevent an improperly constructed, damaged, or poorly maintained well from creating a direct conduit for contaminants to enter the water supply. With a direct conduit, there will be no significant attenuation or dilution of a contaminant. And once those contaminants are in the groundwater, they can negatively impact the quality of your neighbor's water supply. That's why one should properly abandon or repair a damaged well. And yes, sometimes even a properly constructed well will need ex-situ treatment to provide potable water.
    -Sam Smith
    Licensed Professional Geologist - AL, TN, KY

  10. #40
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsmithjr View Post
    I was surprised to see you present an inaccurate statement as factual in your earlier post.

    Anyhow, water treatment does have it's place ..... And yes, sometimes even a properly constructed well will need ex-situ treatment to provide potable water.
    What was the inaccurate statement; A-Z and everything in between? If so, what contaminate?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #41
    DIY Senior Member upper's Avatar
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    Got a fly in the ointment? put the correct lid on.Easy deal........Upper

  12. #42
    DIY Junior Member jmbrad's Avatar
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    Wow!

    Didn't mean to start a controversy.

    In answer to the last question that was asked of me, "How bad is the cloudiness?", It's not "muddy" by any means. It clears quickly as long as the rain stops.

    You know the difference between the way a glass of water looks when it's drawn on a hot day as compared to a cold day? That is the difference after a rain as compared to a dry spell.

    Jody

  13. #43
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    Default cloudy water

    How many feet down is your surface cemented? why did they not case the well to bottom & gravel pack the water zone? Has your water table went down? I have seen open hole wells all of a sudden cloud up could be the formation opend up some or could be water table dropping, running over shale. PVC casing should be fine in your well might just need a gravel filter pack. I would run your pump 24 hrs or until it clears up. test the water a few times

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