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Thread: Problem solving pump cycling

  1. #16
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Right on, dittos, I caught it too and he's got it backwards, the lower the pressure, the more expansion of the bladder.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #17
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Witch,
    what i meant was less water pressure in the system. 70 psi is 70 psi. If you read 70 psi on a pressure gauge, you can bet that there is 70 lbs of pressure in that system.As far as the diaphragm, you are right, it can have more expansion at 50 psi with 28 psi of air. It can expand even more at 70 psi if your settings aren't correct. And that can cause a diaphragm to be damaged.

    Oh yeah, i did graduate High School.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
    Last edited by sammyhydro11; 03-12-2009 at 07:03 PM. Reason: clarification

  3. #18
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    You know what, you guys are 100 percent right and i apologize if i mislead anyone. As long as the tank has the correct settings the diaphragm should simply flex between the 2 pressures in the system. And under lower pressures it can expand more. If the settings are off for much higher pressures in the sytem the diaghragm can rupture.

    No need to comment about my education. My comments were a simple mistake on my part as far as actual pressure on the diaphragm.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com

  4. #19
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I was thinking more along the lines of a licensed and Certified well driller not knowing about the varying drawdown gallons caused by different pressure switch settings.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  5. #20
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    I perfectly understand pressure switch settings and drawdown volumes. If there is too much stress on that diaphragm when the settings are off, it can cause the diaphragm to be damaged and that is one of the reasons why a pressure relief valve is on the tank tee.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com

  6. #21
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    So you say the PRV is to protect the bladder.... And here I always thought the PRV was to prevent the pressure tank from exploding, or to prevent the pump from being blown off PE pipe etc. etc., not to protect the bladder... but tell us why that would be since the tank, and I assume the bladder, has a 120-125 psi working pressure or do I have that wrong?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  7. #22
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    The relief valve will protect the diaphragm and other components.The tank is tested at 125psi. Amtrol says the relief valve should be set at 75psi should be installed with their residential tanks. This setting will protect the tanks components as well as fittings.
    I have always installed the proper relief valves recommended by the manufacturer. My settings on the tanks as well. If you always do things the right way, you will never have problems. I have never really went into figuring out what the actual pressure on a diaphragm was and i will admit, it's cool that Witch pointed it out. I will tell you this, assuming someone doesn't know simple math because i didn't point out the actual pressure on a diaphragm is ridiculous. I simply pointed out what the settings should be. The only thing that was missing on my part, was if the correct settings are off then the diaphragm could be damaged.

    I have no problem admitting that i am wrong about something, when i am. I most certainly don't appreciate the whole comment on education.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com

  8. #23
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Then like I said, at 75 psi they are protecting the tank from explosion like the T/P valve on a water heater, not the bladder. And I think if you look close, there will be a sticker on the tank stating the max operating/working pressure because the PRV isn't code everywhere. And yes, I always installed one whether the customer wanted it or not, there was no option.

    The education thing. Do unto others as you...
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #24

    Default Relief valve

    The system is working however I have a cistern pump that is running too. The well pump fills the pressure tank and shuts off at 58 psi as indictaed by the gauge. Then the cistern pump kicks on and jacks the pressure up to 60 and the relief valve pops. Are my pressure switch settings wrong?

  10. #25
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    You should check the air pressure in both bladder tanks and adjust it to be 1-2 psi less than the turn the pump on setting on the switches. I.E. 30on/50off gets 29-28 psi air pressure with no water in the tank.

    If you have old water pressure gauges you might want to replace them. And use a good air gauge.

    Then if the PRV still leaks then it's probably bad or has dirt in it preventing it from sealing closed.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #26

    Default Time to call in the troops

    After countless hrs I finally called in the well experts. The consensus is this: I have a well pump and a cistern pump. The well pump is activated via the pressure switch. The cistern pump is activated via a float switch. The cistern shuts off when the float rises and is not tied to my pressure switch. My problem was I couldnt figure out why my safety switch (to prevent well pump running dry) kept tripping. Turns out the safety switch is working fine and the well is only producing about 1/2 gallon of water per hour. Needless to say this is not good. We adjusted the safety switch to turn off sooner just to protect the pump, is that's even possible.

  12. #27

    Default Time to call in the troops

    The well pump is indeed running off the pressure switch. Turns out the safety switch kept tripping and shutting down the well pump because there is not enough water ie 1/2 gallon an hour. I thought there must be something
    wrong in the wiring but indeed this was the case.

  13. #28
    Porky Cutter,MGWC Porky's Avatar
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    Default Graduate from High School?

    High School has nothing to do with knowledge! I knew a Harold McGee of Kerr-McGee Oil Corporation that never went to High School however he was self taught and was one of the smartest men I have ever met.

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