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Thread: jetpump to submersible w/ neut & Soft

  1. #1

    Default jetpump to submersible w/ neut & Soft

    So here is the deal.
    2 story House 4bedrooms 2.5 bath was built in 1935. Original well is hand dug. At some point a well pipe was installed and the area was filled in.
    The current setup is a Goulds JN05 jet pump w/ a deep well conversion. I also have an updated 40gal Welltrol pres. tank.

    Problems are PH is 5.6 and I have already had to replace some expensive fixtures. Pressure is terrible no way I can add a neutralizer w/ jetpump setup. In addition some times the pump sings like when you run your finger around the rim of a crystal wine glass. (haven't tried that since I was a kid and nearly got the family kicked out of a restaurant when the band found out I was the src of the feedback)

    So. I am looking to upgrade before I end up in an emergency situation. I have done a a lot of reading here and else where. So I canned the VS Grundfos system, which was recommended by a local plumber I know. I have been told so many things by so many people it makes my head spin.

    Point - Counterpoint
    Always get a 3 wire w/ control box - there is no way to diag this setup. control boxes are for 3hp+.
    Grundfos VS is great- they fail.
    Goulds is the standard - they are terrible now, Franklin motor is important pump maker not so much
    your well at 90' max will support a 18GS10 - this pump will cave your well in. (yes I bought the pump and it's for sale. w/ control box-unused)

    I estimate my well is max 90'. Determining the exact depth and rate of my well could end the life of my current pump - putting me in the position of an emergency.

    Here is my test - opened utility sink hot & cold (near pump) waited for pump to kick on. Pump kicked on at 20psi maintained 24psi and filled a 5gal bucket in 50seconds@24psi. Pump just barely pumps up to 40psi when system is closed off.

    I need an acid neutralizer and will probably need a water softener. I didn't get the hardness number only that it was borderline. With a ph of 5.6 I am guessing I will be dissolving a lot of solids to get balance. The bath towels already as hard as rocks after a couple years.

    I am considering the following equip:

    Franklin pump 7FA07S4-3W230 7gal 3/4hp - Thinking 3/4hp will give me the pres on the other side of the equip.

    Fleck 12" X 48" 3 Cu. ft. pH Neutralizer with Fleck 7000 Digital Control Valve. Includes all media, Noryl Bypass,

    Fleck 7000 Softener (haven't settled on the grains)

    I have a Franklin pumptec-plus I believe I need this w/ the shallow well to protect against dry run.

    I like the idea of the CSV, but I am not sure I need one. I am also not sure what that means for the pres. tank. do I get to use a 2-3gal and ditch the 40gal?

    I calculated my dynamic head to my furthest fixture at 265.

    90' 1" Well
    30' 1", 90deg (2)
    60' 3/4", ball valves (2), 90deg (4)
    5' 1/2"
    neutralizer
    softener
    csv

    This is w/o the water cond. equip. No one seems to be able to tell me what the friction loss at 7GPM / 50psi is through the equip. and I don't know enough to figure our how the 15psi drop I was given for the neutralizer translates. Is it a steady 15psi at all rates? That doesn’t seem right.

    That is my situation. I am looking for any suggestions / advice on my proposed upgrade based on experience.

    Oh, target 5gpm-6gpm @ 50psi

    I hope I gave enough info and not too much.

  2. #2
    DIY Member 1960 rancher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxpayne View Post
    So here is the deal.
    2 story House 4bedrooms 2.5 bath was built in 1935. Original well is hand dug. At some point a well pipe was installed and the area was filled in.
    The current setup is a Goulds JN05 jet pump w/ a deep well conversion. I also have an updated 40gal Welltrol pres. tank.

    Problems are PH is 5.6 and I have already had to replace some expensive fixtures. Pressure is terrible no way I can add a neutralizer w/ jetpump setup. In addition some times the pump sings like when you run your finger around the rim of a crystal wine glass. (haven't tried that since I was a kid and nearly got the family kicked out of a restaurant when the band found out I was the src of the feedback)

    So. I am looking to upgrade before I end up in an emergency situation. I have done a a lot of reading here and else where. So I canned the VS Grundfos system, which was recommended by a local plumber I know. I have been told so many things by so many people it makes my head spin.

    Point - Counterpoint
    Always get a 3 wire w/ control box - there is no way to diag this setup. control boxes are for 3hp+.
    Grundfos VS is great- they fail.
    Goulds is the standard - they are terrible now, Franklin motor is important pump maker not so much
    your well at 90' max will support a 18GS10 - this pump will cave your well in. (yes I bought the pump and it's for sale. w/ control box-unused)

    I estimate my well is max 90'. Determining the exact depth and rate of my well could end the life of my current pump - putting me in the position of an emergency.

    Here is my test - opened utility sink hot & cold (near pump) waited for pump to kick on. Pump kicked on at 20psi maintained 24psi and filled a 5gal bucket in 50seconds@24psi. Pump just barely pumps up to 40psi when system is closed off.

    I need an acid neutralizer and will probably need a water softener. I didn't get the hardness number only that it was borderline. With a ph of 5.6 I am guessing I will be dissolving a lot of solids to get balance. The bath towels already as hard as rocks after a couple years.

    I am considering the following equip:

    Franklin pump 7FA07S4-3W230 7gal 3/4hp - Thinking 3/4hp will give me the pres on the other side of the equip.

    Fleck 12" X 48" 3 Cu. ft. pH Neutralizer with Fleck 7000 Digital Control Valve. Includes all media, Noryl Bypass,

    Fleck 7000 Softener (haven't settled on the grains)

    I have a Franklin pumptec-plus I believe I need this w/ the shallow well to protect against dry run.

    I like the idea of the CSV, but I am not sure I need one. I am also not sure what that means for the pres. tank. do I get to use a 2-3gal and ditch the 40gal?

    I calculated my dynamic head to my furthest fixture at 265.

    90' 1" Well
    30' 1", 90deg (2)
    60' 3/4", ball valves (2), 90deg (4)
    5' 1/2"
    neutralizer
    softener
    csv

    This is w/o the water cond. equip. No one seems to be able to tell me what the friction loss at 7GPM / 50psi is through the equip. and I don't know enough to figure our how the 15psi drop I was given for the neutralizer translates. Is it a steady 15psi at all rates? That doesn’t seem right.

    That is my situation. I am looking for any suggestions / advice on my proposed upgrade based on experience.

    Oh, target 5gpm-6gpm @ 50psi

    I hope I gave enough info and not too much.
    When you get done my house is next....

  3. #3
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    The first thing you need to do is find out what the water level is in this well and how much it produces. Otherwise all the questions mean nothing but asking for a big guess. With a PH like that, I would suspect water getting into this well from a very shallow source which may also mean you have contaminated water.

    A 3/4hp 7 gpm is definately the wrong pump for a well that is only 90 foot deep.

    Then do a water test so suggestions can be made for your softening needs etc.

    bob...

  4. #4
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Max, where are you?

    What diameter well?

    You can't get 3 cuft in a 12 x 52 tank and you shouldn't need an AN filter that large to begin with. I've seen many wells with lower pH than yours and they weren't contaminated with surface water intrusion.

    A two bathroom house will require more than 7 gpm.

    Your 20 psi is low. You can adjust the air in the pressure tank and the switch settings to get more pressure but, it doesn't sound as if the pump will do it.

    I quit selling the 7000 in the spring of 2006 because I had problems with those I sold and because of the variable brining using more water than a softener without the feature. Visit my web site for softener sizing info.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  5. #5
    Porky Cutter,MGWC Porky's Avatar
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    Virginia Beach, VA
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    727

    Default CSV, try it you'll like it!

    Don't consider any variable speed or variable flow pumps, at present they are all techlological nightmares. 2 wire vs 3 wire. . . I used to prefer only 3 wire but due to simplixity I now prefer 2 wire.

    Pump preference: Goulds; Sta Rite; Grundfos; Red Jacket and others! All major brands (not VFD or VS) are good. Discount stores are marginal!

    Pumps don't cave wells in!
    Your 1 hp Goulds 18GS10_230/3wire should be OK.
    A pumptec-plus or even better a cycle sensor by cycle stop valves.

    I recommend installing a Cycle Stop Valve _ Pside-Kick www.cyclestopvalves.com or http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/pdf/p...k-brochure.pdf
    This will give you constant pressure (like city water pressure) and you don't need a large tank.

    I don't get into water conditioning. . . that's not my expertise!

  6. #6
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Max, with correctly sized water treatment equipment, you won't know it is on the plumbing. And usually it is installed after the pump has been sized for the and installed in the house. I've sized many pumps and never calculated it into the TDH of the system, it's not done that way and isn't needed.

    Go with the CSV and small pressure tank.

    Here's a link to convert a two line jet pump to a submersible using one of the two lines for the power cable and the other for the water. Or as I did in the link, add a new water line to a single line (shallow well) jet pump system.

    http://terrylove.com/forums/showthre...hlight=pitless
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 03-03-2009 at 01:07 PM.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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