Bad Pump?

Well I bought a new Dayton 1hp pump. Got the old pump out, removed and cleaned the bladder tank. Ran a new 240V circuit to the new pump. Ran all new CPVC pipes from Pump to tank and to house feed. Got the same setup as before other than the new pump and 240v circuit. I also ran a fishtape in the 1" pipe to find the end for an approximate well location. I put in about 40' of tape.

Primed the pump and started her up. All went well for about a half hour. I had to adjust the pressure down to 20-40 due to the amount of jumping the CPVC was doing with the pump running. Drained the air down to about 17 psi so it would take water. I had a small leak on the suction pipe entering the pump but it was at most a fast drip.

I went to all of the faucets and opened them to get any air out of the pipes. The master bath I opened the sink tub and flushed the toilet. Closed the sink & tub and opened the shower. Closed all and went down to see where the cut off was.

I went back down to the pump and noticed that the gauge was on zero. I immediately shut off the pump. Thinking it lost prime I opened the top plug and noticed it sounded like an air leak then water came out. I removed the in and out pipe from the pump. Both had water in them. I looked in both pipes and both had water in them like earlier in the day when I first put the pump in.

The 90 on the 1-1/4 of course broke when pulling off so I had a hard time removing the rest of the fitting from the 8" stub into the house. I cut off the part of the pipe that split thinking that was why it lost it's prime. I put all back together and filled with water. It only takes about a gal to fill. Started the pump back up and it looked like it was starting to build pressure to about 20psi then it dropped to zero and I shut the pump off.

It almost seems like it is sucking the gauge down to zero. So here it is at 11 PM Saturday night and I have no water.

Not sure what the next step is. I know I need to find the well and pull it up to replace the jet valve but would like to get water back prior to doing that. I don't know if im running the well dry or if the new pump pressure did something to the jet assembly in the well. I need some direction here. Thanks.

I think you have a suction leak, probably at the pump.

Pictures would help.

Ditto! Me too!

Well I replaced the stub 90s to the pump this morning with PVC. Went with steel threaded fittings to the PVC 90's. Seems like it is holding up and working. I do wonder why the air gauge needle jumps around so much when the pump is on. It will jump from 5psi to 40 and anywhere in between. You can see the pressure plate in the switch jumping around as well. Once the needle gets above 40 on the jumps is shuts off and sits at 32psi.

Is this normal or will this be corrected when I replace the foot valve? Also I would like integrate a CSV to regulate pressure. Thanks for the comments it was exactly a small water leak that was a big air leak. Just glad that the foot valve did not go. Now I need to dig up the well and it will probably be about 5ft down.

Pictures would be good.

The needle jumping around and the pressure plate jumping indicates cavitation. The pump want's more water than it's getting.

I sent in a fish tape when replacing pump and new that the tape stopped about 30' from the house. started digging holes looking for the well head.

Dug hole to locate in approximate location 28' out and had no luck. Then went back about 5ft from where the pipe was headed and still had no luck. Went back to hole near house to trace out pipe and discovered that the pipe headed to the right was an old piece and ended there. Dug deeper and found the pipe to the left a few inches down.

Bingo! found the well head. located the vent pipe broken off about one foot down and new at that point the well was located.

Now I need to order the jet assembly and new well cap. I do have a question regarding the jet assembly. The manual calls for a certain combo per well depth. It seems at this time I need to pull the well to determine the depth then reinstall and order the jet assembly and do it again. Any tips?

Why do you want to change the jet?

Does the pump build pressure? If so how much? Do you have water? Are you sure you did away with all the air leaks?

Does this pump have a backpressure control? I didn't see one in the picture. Is this pump from Graingers?

speedbump said:

Why do you want to change the jet?

Does the pump build pressure? If so how much? Do you have water? Are you sure you did away with all the air leaks?

Does this pump have a backpressure control? I didn't see one in the picture. Is this pump from Graingers?

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I want to change the jet to match the new pump and size it according to the well depth. I have increased the pump from 1/2 hp to 1hp. The pump is a Dayton 1D873 1hp. I ordered the 1D883 ejector with comes with multiple venturies and nozzles and a new 1-1/4" brass foot valve.

I still need to pick up a new well cap (forgot to measure if 5" or 6") and some fitting from a local store. I'm planning on replacing jet & foot valve Sunday.

I don't think the pump has back flow control but it does have a flow control screw on the top near the switch. Yes the pump is from graingers but not the same earlier in this thread.

right now the pump does sound like it is trying to suck more than what is avialable which I am thinking it is a clogged foot valve screen. I can get up to 35 - 40 psi on the guage. I'm pretty sure I got rid of all air leaks. but not 100%. How would I know by the pump running?

If you have a 5" or 6" well why in the world are you messing with a jet pump when you could put a sub in instead?

If your putting in any jet pump that is deep well hook up like yours, the pump should be equipped with a spring loaded backpressure control. If yours has a screw that goes directly into the pump housing, you got hosed. It will never work efficiently without the control I mentioned.

speedbump said:

If you have a 5" or 6" well why in the world are you messing with a jet pump when you could put a sub in instead?

If your putting in any jet pump that is deep well hook up like yours, the pump should be equipped with a spring loaded backpressure control. If yours has a screw that goes directly into the pump housing, you got hosed. It will never work efficiently without the control I mentioned.

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The reason I went with a jet pump is that fact that I did not know what size of drop pipe I had and did not know what my options where at the time. At this point and time I want to move forward with what I've purchased, now that I cannot return the installed pump.

I do have a few questions;

1. What is the purpose of the backpressure control on the pump, and could a CSV perform this function?

2. There is a pvc splitter for the pump output and switch port. The flow control is in that splitter and not physically part of the pump.

3. How does the backpressure control help efficiency?

Also I picked up a steel 1-1/4 & 1" sweep 90 for the well head and a new split cap. The old vent pipe was broken off in the ground and obviously did not work. Do I need a new one and if so should it be PVC or rigid gal? Will the drop pipes be rigid threaded pipes or more of the PVC coil type? Just trying to get all of the correct fitting needed for the jet replacement.

Thanks.

I was considering extending the well casing above ground but won't I still have to dig to the pitless adapter to remove the well piping in the future or will the fitting come apart without direct access?

I'm not sure what you mean by a splitter. Most of the backpressure valves I'm familiar with are made or either brass or cast iron. It wouldn't surprise me if Grainger had one made of plastic. I just wouldn't put much faith in it.

Backpressure controls are part of the jet. They work together to get the best efficiency from the pump. Without one on a deeper setting, the pump won't pump a drop of water.

Just like everything else in this world, there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. So far, it looks like your on your way to the wrong way. Sure it might work, it just won't work as good as it should.

Still considering my options and the long road. With having spent only so much money to date I am still good incomparison to hiring a professional. I still dislike Jet pumps and the noise and hassle.

1. I would like to have future access to the well without digging.
2. I like the thought of 30-50 or 40-60 psi with room to spare.
3. the thought of the silence of a submersible pump.

I also like the idea of having all new pipes feeding the house. So I was considering using the 1" PE pipe to the well for power and running a new 1" PE pipe in the 1-1/4 (if it will fit) then install a 1" pitless adapter into the steel well housing then extend the housing up above ground with sch40 PVC. I will extend the old 1" PE up to the well head for the power feed.

If I cannot get the 1" inside of the 1-1/4 I will use the old as is. Is it better to have 1-1/4 to the house or is 1" fine?

I would like to replace the drop pipes so when I am done the old things that remain is the well casing and the water.

I will probably pull the well this weekend replace the foot valve and create a material list for change over.

Would like to go with a 230v to conserve on energy and reduce any voltage drop issues. probably go with a 3/4 or 1hp pump.

I have a question regarding the drop pipe material and size. What is the best material to use and should I go with 1" or 1-1/4"? PE one piece or something with fittings ? Also should I use a fernco strong back coupling for the PVC to steel casing or will the standard fernco fitting be fine? Looking to pick up the material this weekend. Thanks.

I don't like Ferncos for anything concerning well casing. It should be welded or threaded. You can buy Pitless Adaptor kits or you can buy the whole Pitless. It's up to you.

One and a quarter is better than 1". Mainly because of friction loss.

I'm not sure you understand how a pitless adaptor works. You might want to do a bit of research on them first. There are many brands that I am aware of and I haven't used them in over 25 years. Snappy, Baker Monitor, Whitewater are three I am familiar with. there are more. Do a Google search and see what you can come up with.

speedbump said:

I don't like Ferncos for anything concerning well casing. It should be welded or threaded. You can buy Pitless Adaptor kits or you can buy the whole Pitless. It's up to you.

One and a quarter is better than 1". Mainly because of friction loss.

I'm not sure you understand how a pitless adaptor works. You might want to do a bit of research on them first. There are many brands that I am aware of and I haven't used them in over 25 years. Snappy, Baker Monitor, Whitewater are three I am familiar with. there are more. Do a Google search and see what you can come up with.

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Thanks for the input. If you do not use pitless adapters what do you use? And what is the whole pitless?

I understand that the pitless adapter is my connection to the well casing for the water supply connection. Plus now I know that the pitless adapter allows removal of the drop pipe and pump easily. From the pump to the bladder tank in the house the feed will have to drop from a 1-1/4 to 1" to the tank T. I was not sure where to do this. The old jet pump had a 3/4" output so there was no options. I need to purchase the materials for a submersible pump but unsure what type of piping is preferred. I guess this pipe has to support all of the weight of the pipe itself plus pump, water and electrical feed to pump. Which the pitless adapter has to hold all of that.

There is another thread here where someone extended the well casing above ground. I just need to know the details and proceed. From what I can tell the casing is a 5-1/2" I.D. the well cap measures 6" on top. So I will need to either find some 5" PVC or change it to 6" PVC. Thanks.

I've used many Ferncos to bring a steel casing up out of the ground without problems but, you can't be running into the casing with a garden tractor or somesuch, which you shouldn't do that with steel either.

It doesn't matter much if you use the 1" or 1.25" line for the submersible pump to hang on. And when all that drop pipe etc. is under water, it weighs much less than it would if it hung in air. You don't need a new pitless unless you don't have one now. If you have one use a 6" piece of PE pipe on the pitless fitting you aren't going to use and a female insert fitting and plug it with a galvanized or plastic plug or use a short piece of PVC and an end cap to plug that side of a two line pitless. That will save you $75-150 depending on where you buy a new pitless.

Gary, Thanks for the reply. I got a one sided 1" threaded pitless adapter from Lowes for $55. So I will stub up a rigid pipe from the pitless to the top of the well for pulling in the future. I have read that I need to drop a poly rope when using PE pipe and fittings to the pump. I will do this and tie off to the top of well casing.

Is this an issue for pulling the pump if the PE pipe breaks down the road? I can see attaching to the pump on side can make it cock in the pipe when pulling.

From what I have researched I can use the PE pipe for up to 200' and a 1hp pump. Any more then that and I need to use threaded PVC for the weight.

I plan on using 1" from the house out to the pitless adapter and 1" down to the pump PE pipe. This is depending on the depth.

I still have to pull to determine the depth. I will insert the 1" in the 1-1/4 PE pipe to act as a sleeve. For the pump itself I will use a brass RE bushing or the like to drop from 1-1/4 to 1" for the 1" PE drop pipe.

Right now I am trying to figure out what I can use to extend the 5-1/2 steel well casing above ground. Any input?

I don't know where you are getting you info but you're doing this wrong.

No rope, it is not needed and can cause serious problems later. Cable guards every 20' and tape every 10' (between them). No torque arrestor.

Either 1" or 1.25", most use 1", 160 or 200 psi rated PE pipe is commonly used to 500'+ with up to 1.5 hp 5 gpm pumps. You can buy 500' rolls. For over 350' I'd use extended length SS insert fittings. And always use two opposed hose clamps and use the T handled torque wrench you can buy at most places that sell the pipe and fittings. Preferably a pump or plumbing supply house.

I don't understand the running 1" inside 1.25" but it won't fit and there is no reason to attempt it.

PE pipe doesn't break and it is very tough stuff.

You don't leave the T handle for the pitless in the pitless, it needs to be longer than that and, you unscrew it and save it somewhere but not in the well 'cuz the T handle has to be wider than the well casing.