New tile floor - toilet flange too high?

Hi All

Wanted to ask a question so I can figure out what I'm getting myself into. I've ripped out my old bathroom floor. The old floor was tile sitting on a very thick mortar bed.

For the new floor I was going to mortar and screw down 5/16" cement board onto the subfloor and then morter and tile on top of that.

This means the new floor will probably be a little lower than the original so the old toilet flange will no longer be sitting flush on the tile - maybe 1/2" off.

Will this be a problem? Is 1/2" an ok tolerance - i.e. will the toilet still sit flush on the finished floor? Does it depend on the toilet (it's a American Standard Champion 4)?

If I do need to replace the flange, I've no clue how to do it (I'll search this site!!) but I think it should be doable - the subfloor is plywood and my garage is directly below so everything is totally accessable.

Thanks!!

Marc.

Won't work...you'll almost certainly never be able to seat the toilet unless yo uwant to put it on a platform.

You'll need to lower the flange.

Often, older houses with mudbeds can't support a cbu/tile floor; they aren't stiff enough. The mudbed acts like a solid floating floor that holds things intact, but when you remove it and then screw things together, you are at the mercy of the joists and wooden subflooring. You need to determine the stiffness of the floor. If you are going with ceramic, it needs to be at least L/360, stone needs L/720 (twice as stiff) and requires two layers of ply before the cbu.

Check out www.johnbridge.com for tiling help.

Post a picture of the flange you have, and it will be easier to help you fix it.

Thanks Jim! Got me nervous about the floor now but thanks for the tip about the johnbridge site - it looks really usful, I'm gonna head back over there and post now !!

Here's some pictures of the existing flange. Not sure if it will help, I haven't cleaned the old wax off yet so it's a little nasty looking!

Thanks.

It looks like a cast iron flange...a pro can reset it once the tile is in. If you have access from below, you could cut off a section and transition to pvc or abs.

Thanks again Jim!

Yah, it's definately cast iron. I have very easy access below - the bathroom is right above the garage and the only thing between the two is the plywood subfloor.

You mention a pro could reset what I have. How would that be done? Somehow breaking the existing connection between the pipe and the flange?

I'll could definately cut the cast iron and switch to pvc or abs. If I went that path I guess that leads me to some more questions:

1) pvc or abs? Any preference?
2) how do I attached the pvc/abs to the cast iron? Do I buy a smaller pvs/pipe that will slide into the cast iron? Use a pvc/abs coupling? A fernco?
3) Oh - and before I do something stupid/dangerous - how tough is cast iron i.e. can I use a sawzall which by its name I think I could ??

Thanks!

The flange is attached with oakum (oiled hemp) and lead. Usually, if you hit it with a chisel and big hammer, you can split it and take it off. If you are squeamish, you can drill the lead into swiss cheese, and pry it out, then work it off.

There are several legal ways to switch from CI to plastic pipe: a banded coupling (metal sleeve over a neoprene rubber tube with hose clamps), or, if you can remove the pipe from a hub, they make a special donut that fits inside and the plastic pipe fits into that.

They do make blades for a sawsall, but it can be a major pain. Some people use a cutoff wheel on a grinder, but probably the quickest way is to rent a soil pipe cutter - it's a big heavy chain sort of like a bicycle chain with hardened disks you clamp around the pipe, then tighten down. The pipe snaps at the points of the disks. Takes almost longer to talk about it than do it. I've rented them from HD, but any good tool rental store should have one.

As to pvc verses abs, depends on what's available locally...often it's a regional thing, but a few places have both. Just make sure you use the compatible cement for whatever you choose.

Jim you are a superstar! Thanks for all the advice and being so generous with your time. I think I'm good to go...for now!

I'm taking next week off work to rebuild the bathroom so I'll let you knnow how it all works out!

If you can cut the old flange and pipe off at the height of the finished floor, you can use a new cast iron flange that seals with a rubber gasket instead of the lead and oakum. You may not need to transition further back.

BTW, kudos to you for being so gung ho with this. Most people are squeamish when it comes to cast iron.

Thanks for the advice! I'll let you know after wheather I'd wish I'd been more squeamish!!!