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Thread: Watts Floodsafe? Not Very! part 1

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member burleymike's Avatar
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    I used all pex risers for my sinks and toilets. For the dishwasher I used 3/8 crimped 3/8 pex. I hope this will last as long as copper would have. I gave up on the braided hoses after having one that was less than a year old leak.

    I will not even bother looking at these for the washing machine. What a POS

  2. #17
    DIY Junior Member Maindish's Avatar
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    Default Looks like my house!

    Deja Vu!
    I could've taken pictures just like that one month ago. It wasn't a Floodsafe (although I've been using 3 without incident for a couple years). I had installed a drinking water filter below the sink. It had integral push-in style tube o-ring fittings. I've used these for pneumatics for years. I even threw out the cheap tubing the kit supplied and used the nice 1/8" PEX hose made for refridgerators with the preformed compression end. Anyways, the collar in the fitting that holds the tube blew out. That little line sprayed all day to the tune of almost $30K.

    Now that my joists are all open beneath I'm trying to think of the most reliable way to re-plumb. I'm leaning towards running 3/8" PEX (crimp-ring style) to a wall box with the angle valve behind the fridge. The other end will come all the up under the floor to the exposed plumbing under the sink. This way I have no buried connections. I really had gotten used to the big filter and want to do something like it again, preferably with threaded fittings; the outlet would tee off to the icemaker line and to a filtered water spout on the sink. I was looking to see if FloodSafe came as a threaded valve w/o the hose when I found this thread.

    Any recommendations on my install? I am nervous as heck about ever having a line break again. What a miserable process.

    Ultimately, I think it'd be wise for the insurance companies to fund the development of an affordable automatic shutoff. I envision a system of distributed water sensors in each bathroom, kitchen, utility room, etc, as well as a freeze sensor. Any sensor could trip a 1" shutoff valve on the supply line to the house. One valve for the house - no hose gimmicks. The valve would fail closed, which is to say that it must have power to be open. This could save SO much money. Does anything like this exist? Does it violate code in any way to install an automated valve on the supply line?

  3. #18
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maindish View Post
    Ultimately, I think it'd be wise for the insurance companies to fund the development of an affordable automatic shutoff. I envision a system of distributed water sensors in each bathroom, kitchen, utility room, etc, as well as a freeze sensor. Any sensor could trip a 1" shutoff valve on the supply line to the house. One valve for the house - no hose gimmicks. The valve would fail closed, which is to say that it must have power to be open. This could save SO much money. Does anything like this exist? Does it violate code in any way to install an automated valve on the supply line?
    I believe this might be a system similar to what you are talking about...
    http://www.watercop.com/overview.aspx

  4. #19
    DIY Junior Member mmbodyshop's Avatar
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    Default Watts Floodsafe Supply Line Failure

    I have not been able to find any information on whether anyone else has experienced a total failure with the Watts Floodsafe supply lines? This product was installed on my dishwasher in my newly built home, which has turned out to be a very bad idea. After a month of use the supply line broke between the compression fitting and the "floodsafe" shutoff valve. The compression fitting had been installed per the manufacturers instructions (hand tighten and 1/4 turn with wrench); which was confirmed when I removed it with a 1/4 turn and hand loosened. The insurance ajuster agreed it appeared to be a defect in the hose/construction.

    As a result of the failure water filled the kitchen, master bedroom, dining room, living room, and unfinished basement. So far to date we are looking at approximately $15,000-$20,000 damage, more if we end up having to replace the custom cabinets.

  5. #20
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    If you had been a regular on this forum, you would have learned that this is all too common with the Watts Floodsafe lines. The problem is the entire product is worthless. Sad to say that this is just another lesson learned too late. I hope your insurance will come through for you.

  6. #21
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Look Familiar?







    Oh wait a minute... That was a different house!

  7. #22
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    The way it will probably work is that the homeowner's insurance will do the repairs then they will in turn sue EVERYONE who had anything to do with it. Plumber, manufacturer, etc. and let the courts decide who is blameless. In any case, I would not want to be the one who bought/supplied those, since he may be the one on the hook, regardless of who installed them.

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member Rich B's Avatar
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    I see these hoses in every big box store. I thought this must be a great idea and installed them in my house. Toilet supply and washing machine.
    As a mechanic by trade and having years and years of experience with fittings and hoses and things of that nature......I believe the hose fitting is weakened during the install somehow.....Maybe it's a poor design and prone to damage or just weak but I have never seen a fitting just fail for no reason......

    I was under the impression that Watts made good quality products ??

  9. #24
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Default Watts Floodsafe

    The floodsafe has been causing problems with toilets, dishwashers, washers and lavs

    If you don't mind "resetting" the floodsafe every so often, it wouldn't be too bad.
    As a plumber, I won't install them.
    And if I see one, I remove it.
    It saves a service call later.
    It's just too hard trying to explain to a homeowner why they don't have water.
    Remove the floodsafe, and the conversation is over.

    I get calls from homeowners all the time, wondering why they aren't getting water to a fixture.
    I ask them to look at the tag and read it back.
    Then I tell them to throw it away, and replace with a normal supply.

    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...ight=floodsafe


  10. #25
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I see these hoses in every big box store. I thought this must be a great idea and installed them in my house. Toilet supply and washing machine.
    As a mechanic by trade and having years and years of experience with fittings and hoses and things of that nature......I believe the hose fitting is weakened during the install somehow.....Maybe it's a poor design and prone to damage or just weak but I have never seen a fitting just fail for no reason......

    I was under the impression that Watts made good quality products ??
    You can pretty much see the design problem in this post...
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...l=1#post184506
    This one missed it on quality...

    Last edited by Terry; 02-28-2010 at 11:42 AM.

  11. #26
    DIY Junior Member redantpile's Avatar
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    I have had a problem with these also. A few years ago I replaced everything with Floodsafe. It seemed like a good idea. I had done one under the kitchen sink. It felt funny while turning the nut. After about 30 seconds the valve blew off. It looked exactly as Rewood's pictures. I should have saved it, but I didn't. I know that I did not over tighten the nut. At the time, I thought it was just a defect from the factory and was not a common problem. I looked on the internet for others posting the same problem, but found none. So I went back and made sure that none were over tightened, and also looked for a large gap between the nut and valve body. I did find one or too that I was not happy with and replaced them just in case. In fairness, this was about two years ago and none have failed since. However after seeing this post I am not going to take any chances. I'm replacing them today. Here is a picture from one sink. You can see they are manufactured differently. The one on the right has a knurled nut and notice how large the gap is between the nut and valve body. The one on the left looks normal. I have 19 total and this is the only one with the knurled nut. Maybe those are the bad ones? The picture posted by Redwood is also that style.I think the others are okay but who want to take the chance. Not with 900 sq ft of Hickory flooring

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    Last edited by redantpile; 12-12-2010 at 09:12 AM.

  12. #27
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    "MADE IN CHINA?"

    Quote Originally Posted by HoracioO View Post
    What is it with this obsession?

    The company that is selling it to you is responsible for the design specs, QA and most of the profits, yet you get obsessed about where it is made. Wake up and start asking the company whose label is on it why the quality sucks! Be it Watts selling poorly designed fittings or Mattel selling lead laced toys the responsibility rest squarely in the board room of these large corporations, US or other wise.
    This is why it matters: While Watts may have designed a product that does not break in half, and the first 5,000 were made correctly, the Chinese are specialists in quietly downgrading the metallurgy of the fitting to make a larger profit [ because the corporate greed of America beat their cost down to a miniscule profit]

    Watts does'nt care enough to have a full time inspector in the plant and no way to test container loads.

    Therefore, your choice of any supply hose that says made in USA and has a name and address on it makes it safer -

    1] You can FIND and sue them

    2] The CEO does'nt want some guy barging into his office to strangle him with a dishwasher supply line, so he keeps a good watch on his product.

    3] The profit and workers wages stay in America.

    4] The machine tools, the maintenance, the factory stays in America.

    These truths, as one famous patriot said "Are self evident"

    Also evident are three testing labels on the tag of this junk, which shows the value of our government oversight. Might as well add NEC and OSHA to the tag.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 12-12-2010 at 12:09 PM.

  13. #28
    Homeowner Thatguy's Avatar
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    If you're risking $25K with a flood, using "floodstop systems" with sensors in several places over the house seems worthwhile. It would turn off the main inlet supply, assuming it doesn't have problems like that shown above.

    I couldn't find any lawsuits for Floodsafe.
    http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/floodsafe.aspx

    You'd think insurance companies would be suing them to recover their losses.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subrogate
    Last edited by Thatguy; 12-12-2010 at 02:13 PM.

  14. #29
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    It could be made in America, and it would still be a PoS. The problem is in the design, NOT the manufacture, of it. As for "replacing" the standard flexible hoses every five years, I NEVER change them until the faucet is replaced.

  15. #30
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    By what standard have you determined that the seperation of the two portions was NOT caused by faulty casting, crimping or bonding?

    Never bought one, as it was obvious to me that it was a sales scam and the mechanics of the device prone to false closure or plugging at the very least.

    We will find out when the lawsuit does open up.

    [QUOTE]I believe this might be a system similar to what you are talking about...
    http://www.watercop.com/overview.aspx
    [/QUOTE
    ]

    Better not mix that before the home firesprinkler systems soon to be mandated
    Last edited by ballvalve; 12-13-2010 at 09:58 AM.

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