Gate Valve under Sink for Outside water

drjimmy · Feb 7, 2009

I posted a while back about my freezing dripping outside valve.

I've dealt with a leak getting past the seating of my gate valve that controls the outside valve for several weeks because I just now have the time to try and repair and/or fix the gate valve.

I've attached 2 pictures of the valve. You can see its ancient.

I've been trying to research this question because I am confused about how one would fix a gate valves seat

Do I need to secure a wrench to a connecting pipe and try and turn the bonnet on a valve in order to pull out the stem and fix the corroded parts that are letting water get past ? You guys know better than me - but looking at new valves in the store today, it looks like a bear to take a valve apart - especially one that may be close to 50 years old...The bonnet on valves look way to hard to turn, although they are designed in way that you can put a wrench on...

Most sites and threads say if there is a problem it's best to change the valve - and put a ball valve in ( some of yuo have suggested that in first place ).

If I need to actually take the old gate off - it looks to me like we're talking about cutting, welding, and putting in the ball valve

Can you or can you not disassemble a gate valve while its attached and fix the corroded parts causing the water to get by ?

Excuse the horrible pics - I just cut away some of the dry wall in order to see the extent of what I am dealing with and some of the white of the paint and drywall is all over the packing nut.

I've never welded before. I think I'd like to call in a plumber if its detailed, to do this. Plus its murder to get under this sink and work at 6'2

How do you guys not have bad backs doing this stuff for a living..?

SewerRatz · Feb 7, 2009

I would just open the wall, and replace that gate valve with a ball valve. I just ran a service call where a handyman tried to "repair" a two inch gate valve for a shopping mall, and snapped off the stem. I got them water today, but will be returning Monday to replace it with a ball valve. Also convinced the landlord to have me change all the one inch gate valves on the unit meters as well.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Kingsotall · Feb 7, 2009

drjimmy said:
How do you guys not have bad backs doing this stuff for a living..?

They shove their helper under there.

drjimmy · Feb 7, 2009

kingsotall said:
They shove their helper under there.

Cheaters!

So I think I'm looking at this as the task at hand

http://video.bobvila.com/m/21291655/replacing-a-leaky-valve.htm

Terry · Feb 7, 2009

Dude,
You guys have to watch that.
It looks like a beginner trying to plumb.

It reminds me of my first day running copper.

Yeah, but even I didn't bring along a vice and workbench to hold my 6" length of copper pipe while I soldered one side of a 1/2" coupling.
My journeyman would have been yelling at me to "Get to work".

When cutting in new work to old, the more faucets you open up, the quicker it all drains down.
Always leave a faucet open while soldering. A closed system will blow a hole in the last joint.
And wear gloves. You know these things get hot, right?

Cass · Feb 8, 2009

Amazing...the vid shows some amateur that does not know what tools he has ...he cleans the inside of a copper pipe with a fitting brush then uses sand cloth to clean the inside of the fitting...

a Bob Vila production...

TedL · Feb 8, 2009

Consider installing a valve that requires no sweating, like this, available at the big blue box. It also tends to take up a bit more of the pipe run, an advantage in that it may let you cut out the old and just install the valve without adding a short length of pipe. Measure carefully! If cutting would leave you with too big a gap, you'll have to unsweat the old. No skill required, just a metal piece as a heat shield. And patience to clean up the ends of the pipe to allow for a good compression seal.

http://www.apollovalves.com/pipemaster/configurations.asp

http://www.apollovalves.com/pipemaster/pipemaster.asp

NHmaster · Feb 8, 2009

If you look close I think that's a globe valve not a gate.

hj · Feb 8, 2009

valve

That is a globe valve, not a gate valve, so if you are lucky and the seat is not damaged all you have to do is remove the top and replace the washer. If the seat is damaged because of long term leakage, the you have to replace the valve The seat is not removable and you do not have the necessary reseating tools.

drjimmy · Feb 8, 2009

hot....

Terry said:
Dude,
You guys have to watch that.
It looks like a beginner trying to plumb.

It reminds me of my first day running copper.

Yeah, but even I didn't bring along a vice and workbench to hold my 6" length of copper pipe while I soldered one side of a 1/2" coupling.
My journeyman would have been yelling at me to "Get to work".

When cutting in new work to old, the more faucets you open up, the quicker it all drains down.
Always leave a faucet open while soldering. A closed system will blow a hole in the last joint.
And wear gloves. You know these things get hot, right?

Yea, I think I realize Im dealing with hot surfaces. No gloves on the dude in the video eh? I don't know if I'm gonna do this myself. As much as I find it fascinating to learn more and more about plumbing and house repair, I may leave this to a professional...Don't get me wrong, I'd love to "do" what's in the video - ( I didn't realize you'd all find it funny, I posted that link just to show that I think this is what needs to be done - by someone - ) but a pro will no the dangers of the heat and i assume wear protection for his hands etc...

I love learning tips and reading - sometimes when I read these forums I kind of think I might have enjoyed doing this type of work for a living if I had the calling earlier in life...Putting together a network of pipes or electric and making it run smooth must be a major satisfaction - maybe more of an enjoyment out of that then what ever you guys get paid....since you have to love what you do. I know I sound like just another dumb "newbie" but I'd love to have the knowledge to fix more things...Im just a pathetic "wannabe" I guess...

I had no clue that that film would even show stupid lame moves that you pros pick right out. I guess that's why it's made for people like me....I'd rather be called silly but learn something, so I post here...thanks for taking the time !

drjimmy · Feb 8, 2009

Cass said:
Amazing...the vid shows some amateur that does not know what tools he has ...he cleans the inside of a copper pipe with a fitting brush then uses sand cloth to clean the inside of the fitting... a Bob Vila production...

You know, nothing for nothing, but is the guy really some amateur ? ( not debating, just asking..). Why put together a website with multimedia if they are going to bypass some of the dangers especially to yourself, ie: no gloves...
Just thinking out loud...Thought Villa was a respectable rep behhind him....only reason I thought it might be close to what I need to do, IF I were to tackle this...

drjimmy · Feb 8, 2009

TedL said:
Consider installing a valve that requires no sweating, like this, available at the big blue box. It also tends to take up a bit more of the pipe run, an advantage in that it may let you cut out the old and just install the valve without adding a short length of pipe. Measure carefully! If cutting would leave you with too big a gap, you'll have to unsweat the old. No skill required, just a metal piece as a heat shield. And patience to clean up the ends of the pipe to allow for a good compression seal.

http://www.apollovalves.com/pipemaster/configurations.asp

http://www.apollovalves.com/pipemaster/pipemaster.asp[/QUOte

thank you for sharing this.

drjimmy · Feb 8, 2009

hj said:
That is a globe valve, not a gate valve, so if you are lucky and the seat is not damaged all you have to do is remove the top and replace the washer. If the seat is damaged because of long term leakage, the you have to replace the valve The seat is not removable and you do not have the necessary reseating tools.

when you say remove the top - is this taking off the handle, and taking off the packing nut - and then turning the bonnet ?

I am sorry for getting easily confused - I've been trying to read up on this for days and I get easily confused.

However, I think the since it's not stopping the water from traveling out to the outside source even though the valve is shut tight , wouldn't this be more of a seat problem - hence changing the valve ?

There is no leak at the handle, so I know that giving the packing nut a 1/4 turn has been suggested as a fix for that - I believe its the seat that isn't doing the job.

Now here's where you will all laugh at me - does this sound familiar ?
"People I work with that I talk to suggested I just dissamble the valve and take it to the "mega store" and get the right replacement and/or washer".

That's after I told them its not a handle/valve leak, its simply allowing water to get by and flow out to the backyard, trickling amounts, yet, enough to scream "fix me".

I do not know as much as you guys, so my questions must sound so rookie and silly, but I do know that what "they" say seems impossible, unless I am not understanding something - I;ve loosened packing nuts on valves - but I can't see how one would "turn" the bonnet to remove the stem and see whats rotted.

Perhaps I'm mixing things up - Is that what you mean by remove the top..? Do I need to turn that bonnet while attached to the water supply ( after shutting house water off that is ) That seems like its not something easily done - if its even meant to turn...

I really want to fix it myself and learn this stuff, but its sounding more and more like I need to get someone who knows what they are doing to come in and do this.....Oh well...maybe this task wasn't meant for me to do after all...

SewerRatz · Feb 8, 2009

I like the fact that in the video that he keeps calling the ball valve a gate valve. "temeraly a small leanth of copper pipe into the gate valve." Then he says "apply flux... ... as well as both sides of the gate valve"

drjimmy · Feb 8, 2009

SewerRatz said:
I like the fact that in the video that he keeps calling the ball valve a gate valve. "temeraly a small leanth of copper pipe into the gate valve." Then he says "apply flux... ... as well as both sides of the gate valve"

Geesh....I honestly never thought this was anything but a professional way to show do it yourselfers - now I need to think twice about watching any of these do it yourself videos......Im in the PC help desk field, I guess if I watched how some people take apart CPUS, I'd be finding things and laughing like you guys do..!

drjimmy · Feb 8, 2009

SewerRatz said:
I like the fact that in the video that he keeps calling the ball valve a gate valve. "temeraly a small leanth of copper pipe into the gate valve." Then he says "apply flux... ... as well as both sides of the gate valve"

I just watched the video again and I'm LOL this time!! You're right the whole time he calls it "a gate valve" - does he even mention the word "ball valve" at all??

Also, did you notice the water dripping from the main water shut off..? Isn't that an issue? You think maybe they'd do a video with a main shut off thats not dripping water.... ( unless thats normal...? )

SewerRatz · Feb 8, 2009

drjimmy said:
I just watched the video again and I'm LOL this time!! You're right the whole time he calls it "a gate valve" - does he even mention the word "ball valve" at all??

Also, did you notice the water dripping from the main water shut off..? Isn't that an issue? You think maybe they'd do a video with a main shut off thats not dripping water.... ( unless thats normal...? )

Nope that is not normal that is an old wedge style valve kind of like some they used on gas valves. I didn't look close to see if it had a nut on the bottom, but most of them do and you just need to tighten the nut to stop the leak. Most valves that leak at the packing can be fixed with snugging up the packing nut, or replacing the packing.

hj · Feb 9, 2009

video

The guy applying the flux to the joint must have been a house painter the way he slathers it on. If someone working for me took the time to solder ONE side of the coupling and ONE side of the valve onto the short stub, then waited for it to cool down before he installed it and made the final connections, he would not be working very long. The person doing the video is like the guys on a assembly line doing piece work. When they are being watched to set their standards, they insert all kinds of time killers so their official production quotas are low. While watching it I was thinking, "What a dork", but could not turn it off because I wanted to see what he would screw up next.

Redwood · Feb 9, 2009

hj said:
The guy applying the flux to the joint must have been a house painter the way he slathers it on. If someone working for me took the time to solder ONE side of the coupling and ONE side of the valve onto the short stub, then waited for it to cool down before he installed it and made the final connections, he would not be working very long. The person doing the video is like the guys on a assembly line doing piece work. When they are being watched to set their standards, they insert all kinds of time killers so their official production quotas are low. While watching it I was thinking, "What a dork", but could not turn it off because I wanted to see what he would screw up next.

I had the same impression...
I wanted to shut it off after the first screw up but couldn't because I didn't want to miss the next one...

Kingsotall · Feb 9, 2009

This is an awesome thread! lmao

Gate Valve under Sink for Outside water

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