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Thread: Concern about slope

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member denikar's Avatar
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    Default Concern about slope

    Hi all,

    Great forum. First time poster with an issue that has been worrying me for a few weeks. I'm installing a new 2nd floor bathroom and have been following the latest Michigan plumbing code. The issue is where the shower drain meets the tub drain I mistakenly drilled the next joist hole too high. Now the "T" there is perfectly level instead of sloping down by 1/4" per foot per code.

    Here is a side view of the "T" in question:
    Name:  Bathroom Project 088sm.JPG
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    Here is a perspective view of the junction:
    Name:  Bathroom Project 096sm.JPG
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    In order for me to resolve the issue I would need to drill a larger hole in the joist which will violate the structual code (no hole within 2" of edge and not to exceed 1/3 of the width of the joist).

    Question is do you think this will be a major issue (with clogging) in the future or am I worrying too much?

    Thanks in advance,

    Tim

  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    You have also altered the height of the shower drain, making is an ilegal S trap.
    I see too where you have the tub draining past the shower, which will siphon the shower trap.
    Also, you have a santee on it's side. At the least it should have been a wye fitting.

    Is any of this vented?

    So much wrong, in so little space.
    Last edited by Terry; 02-08-2013 at 06:02 PM.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member denikar's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm not sure how the height of the shower drain was altered as I used a complete "P" trap. Right after the "P" trap it slopes down to the T.

    I did not think about the siphoning issue - uggg

    As for venting yes there is one 1.5" vent in-between the shower and the tub. It is located 16" from this T and 16" from the tub drain.

  4. #4
    DIY Junior Member denikar's Avatar
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    Here is a crude sketch of the setup. Seems I have the same siphon issue with the vanity...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by denikar; 02-10-2013 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #5
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    EACH trap needs its own vent...as drawn, only the tub is vented.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    DIY Junior Member denikar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    EACH trap needs its own vent...as drawn, only the tub is vented.
    Understood and will do. Thanks for the reply.

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member denikar's Avatar
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    Better?

    Name:  setup2.jpg
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  8. #8
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Better, but still not right! The vent line must come off the trap arm at or before it connects to the main line. The problem is, water rushing by the trap arm connection can suck the trap dry if there isn't a vent to prevent that. Just adding a vent doesn't work, it has to be in the right place as well.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #9
    DIY Junior Member denikar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    Better, but still not right! The vent line must come off the trap arm at or before it connects to the main line. The problem is, water rushing by the trap arm connection can suck the trap dry if there isn't a vent to prevent that. Just adding a vent doesn't work, it has to be in the right place as well.
    OK I get it now I think. Thanks for the reply. Since the location of this branch is under the shower I will need to go horizontal for about 2ft to get to a place where I can go vertical:

    Name:  setup3.jpg
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    Last edited by denikar; 02-09-2013 at 11:42 AM.

  10. #10
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Not sure that's going to cut it either, but you're closer. COuld you run the trap arm from the shower that way, vent it, then turn and pick up the main drain line along that back wall? Or run it at a 45 towards that corner, run the vent up before joining the main line? One of the pros should comment before you tear things up, as I've probably missed something.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  11. #11
    DIY Senior Member Hammerlane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denikar View Post
    I will need to go horizontal for about 2ft to get to a place where I can go vertical:
    The part in red cannot be horizontal at the position you show it. If the shower drain in green ever clogged up, that horizontal section of the vent could get clogged with no way of unclogging the vent.


    You cannot turn the vent horizontal until it is a certain height above the flood level rim of fixtures in that group. Someone else should chime in with specifics.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  12. #12
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; Right after the "P" trap it slopes down to the T.

    That is the problem, it cannot "slope down" using those 1/16 bend fittings until AFTER the vent connection and the vent connection cannot be "horizontal" until it is 6" above the spill level of the fixture. You also cannot use a sanitary tee in a horizontal line. The installation might be better if you had designed a better routing BEFORE you started drilling holes.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member denikar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    The installation might be better if you had designed a better routing BEFORE you started drilling holes.
    Yes I realize I screwed up. But I want to fix it. The joists can be sistered rather easily as I've already sistered 4 of them to meet the tub loading requirements and to meet the ceramic tile maximum allowed bend requirements.

    Here is what I can do (from Jim's suggestion):
    Name:  vent idea3.jpg
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    Can a vent connect to a line at a 45 degree vertical angle as shown?

  14. #14
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    The vent needs to be as vertical as possible, and in no case lower than 45 degrees.

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