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Thread: tankless-luke warm shower

  1. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    and your interpretation is?

    I was trying to talk about the temperature of the "hot" water during the test, not the volume and pressure. What hot water temperature is required by code taking into consideration the volume and pressure during your test, and for what time period must that temperature be maintained?

    My old water heater tank would start to cool down after 15 or 20 minutes of use (shower) during the winter season (40 degree incoming water temperature). My tankless will maintain temperature during a shower that could last forever.

    No water storage in a tankless means no water is stored at the optimum temperature needed to create a breeding ground for bacteria either!

  2. #107
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    Ladiesman271...I am just wondering why you are so interested in the Mass plumbing code since home owners aren't allowed to do their own plumbing by Law in your State...it seems to me you would just call a plumber in and let him worry about interpreting the code...

  3. #108
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Nashua, NH has required a tempering valve on WH for at least 3-years, maybe longer.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #109
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    Well folks that's it! Let's all get rid of our tank type water heaters because Ladiesman seems to be the definitave expert on the whole subject of heating water. That EVERY SINGLE piece of information he posts is either and exageration misleading or just plain wrong has nothing to do with it. His knowledge of water heating technology is far superior to anything we possess. He has a way of interpreting the Mass code that is far beyone any or our reasoning. I should just hand in my Mass license now because I obviously have no idea how to size water piping or fixture demand, at least by his method. Of course I suppose I could get someone from the board to give him a little lesson but he would probably tell that poor guy he didn't know his job either.

    PLEASE GOD CLOSE THIS STUPID THREAD. My helmet is starting to frey athe the edges

  5. #110
    Geologist sjsmithjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladiesman271 View Post
    No water storage in a tankless means no water is stored at the optimum temperature needed to create a breeding ground for bacteria either!
    If you are suggesting that the absence of a tank type water heater or tankless with recirculating system would somehow preclude the presence of bacteria (in particular the pathogen legionellosis) in a water distribution system, then you are sadly mistaken.

    Could you please clarify, in your own words, your position regarding the possibility of legionellosis being present in a water distribution system that relies on a tankless water heater?
    Last edited by sjsmithjr; 02-09-2009 at 07:25 AM. Reason: editied for clairty
    -Sam Smith
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  6. #111
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cass View Post
    Ladiesman271...I am just wondering why you are so interested in the Mass plumbing code since home owners aren't allowed to do their own plumbing by Law in your State...it seems to me you would just call a plumber in and let him worry about interpreting the code...
    I had the same thoughts when I posted the yet unanswered question in this post...
    Unanswered question for Laddy Man

    I guess the hard to answer questions get ignored while the drivel spews on...

    Laddy man Answer the questions or shut the trap!
    I have 3 posts waiting replies...
    Have you got answers or, just the garbage?

  7. #112
    Extreme DIY Homeowner Scuba_Dave's Avatar
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    Duck & cover, change topic

    repeat as needed
    DIY Handyman (not 4 hire)
    I have enough to do to my own house

  8. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsmithjr View Post
    Well, it's on the Delta website:

    "Often the outgoing water pressure from a "tankless" water heater is relatively low. As a result, these devices are not generally recommended for use with pressure balanced units due to the possible differences in water pressure from the hot and cold lines. For example, if you were to have 20 PSI on the hot supply line and 50 PSI on the cold, since pressure balancing adjusts to the low pressure, your resulting operating pressure in the shower will be reduced."

    Maybe Greg should give Delta a call and let them know that their wrong too. The Boy Scout's all trades certified and got it all figured out, you know.


    Back to the original topic.

    I measured the water pressure of the hot water while my shower was on full force hot with no cold mixed in. Standard present day MA code required 2.2? gpm shower head. I measured 45 PSI at the washing machine shutoff (pipe length 45 foot of the same 65 foot run to shower). Present water input temperature 42 degrees. Output water temperature is 125 degrees nominal.

    That being said, my type of tankless unit does not adjust the water volume or pressure to maintain its heating capacity.

    So can one presume that with the use of a pressure balanced shower valve that the pressure of the cold would be limited to 45 psi and nothing else would happen?


    I also read the FPN on the pressure balanced shower valve web sites. The substance of the FPN note is that a pressure balanced shower valve requires a seasonal adjustment of the high temperature limiter in order to maintain the anti scald temperature year round. How many consumers know about that, let alone how many of them make a seasonal adjustment?

    .
    Last edited by Ladiesman271; 02-09-2009 at 01:56 PM.

  9. #114
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    This is the reply we are now giving...

  10. #115
    Geologist sjsmithjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladiesman271 View Post
    Back to the original topic.
    Not so fast. Ask and answer, my friend. Much time has passed since that post. Respond to each question asked of you since and I will consider your most recent.
    -Sam Smith
    Licensed Professional Geologist - AL, TN, KY

  11. #116
    DIY Member Hillbilly Man's Avatar
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    Hot Dang!
    This is just like when Southern Man screwed the pooch!

    Man that Redwood He don't pull no punches.
    It looks just like when Tyson was at his best!
    Hillbilly Eng-in-ear
    Moonshine Maker
    Dumb as a Stump

  12. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsmithjr View Post
    Not so fast. Ask and answer, my friend. Much time has passed since that post. Respond to each question asked of you since and I will consider your most recent.


    A tankless water heater will pass through whatever is in the cold water feed to the tank. THe heater water is no worse nor better than the incoming cold water. As has been widely discussed here and elsewhere, a storage tank heater is a potential breeding ground for bacteria if an improper temperature setting is used.


    If that answer does not suit you, research "your" issue on what problems exist in public & private water supplies with the EPA or the appropriate local government or medical research group. After you have done your research, write a complete detailed report and get back to us at your convenience.




  13. #118
    Geologist sjsmithjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladiesman271 View Post
    A tankless water heater will pass through whatever is in the cold water feed to the tank. The heater water is no worse nor better than the incoming cold water. As has been widely discussed here and elsewhere, a storage tank heater is a potential breeding ground for bacteria if an improper temperature setting is used.
    Again, I will ask you if you could please clarify, in your own words, your position regarding the possibility of legionellosis being present in a water distribution system that relies on a tankless water heater?

    It is not "my" issue although I do believe you brought it up a couple of days ago. You can also rest assured that my knowledge base re the topic isn't sponsered by Google.

    I believe several other posters have questions awaiting answers as well.
    -Sam Smith
    Licensed Professional Geologist - AL, TN, KY

  14. #119
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Laddy Boy,
    Answer the questions and replies in posts #127-129 of this thread.
    If you have an answer at all.
    The correct answers have been given and it is no can of worms.

  15. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsmithjr View Post

    Again, I will ask you if you could please clarify, in your own words, your position regarding the possibility of legionellosis being present in a water distribution system that relies on a tankless water heater?

    I have already answered that question. Since you are a "special case", legionellosis is commonly found in the cold water supply that is piped into your home from whatever water source is used.




    Quote Originally Posted by sjsmithjr View Post

    It is not "my" issue although I do believe you brought it up a couple of days ago. You can also rest assured that my knowledge base re the topic isn't sponsered by Google.

    You are the one who has expanded the scope of this discussion to include water sources, water distribution systems, and what deficiencies exist in the incoming water supply. The expanded scope of this issue is 100 % "your issue"!



    Quote Originally Posted by sjsmithjr View Post

    I believe several other posters have questions awaiting answers as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0jyKabLHVc

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