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Thread: Misc Residentual Code Questions

  1. #16
    DIY Member PeteD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris75 View Post
    Code reference?
    Not sure about the code, but the microwave can be a huge draw. We used to trip our breaker all the time before it was on its own circuit.

  2. #17

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    When you hit quote, it has an initial quote with brackets, message, then a bracket, slash, QUOTE, and bracket.

    Don't remove the last slash QUOTE, type below that.

  3. #18
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    You'd have to check, but I think a laundry circuit is limited to just the WM and (if gas) dryer; nothing else is supposed to be connected to it.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #19
    Remodel Contractor GabeS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
    When you hit quote, it has an initial quote with
    .

    Like this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post

    Don't remove the last slash QUOTE, type below that.
    And this.

    Woo hoo
    Gabe

    Don't follow my advice, I only know a thing or two about a thing or two.

  5. #20

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    Originally Posted by drick

    Microwaves also require a dedicated circuit.
    Built in microwaves.

    In some cases vent hoods require a dedicated circuit. I assume because so many people are switching them out to micro/vent combos.

  6. #21
    DIY Senior Member Master Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
    Built in microwaves.

    In some cases vent hoods require a dedicated circuit. I assume because so many people are switching them out to micro/vent combos.

    My understanding on the microwave was that if built in it needed a seperate circuit, if not, then it could use the small appliance circuit. Hmmm....

    Thanks for the idea on the fridge for being 1st, whomever said that. I think I'm going to have 3 dedicated circuits for my kitchen area. I will probably try to include the fridge and possibly the d/w on those. The fridge will be on a wall, with only two 24" wide countertops, so not much room for appliances, but that will hopefully meet code. The D/W will be in a walk-in pantry, so not many appliances will be in use there either.

    My bath is on two circuits. 1(20amp) feeds all receptacles and a pair of wall sconces, the other(15amp) feeds the ceiling light and exhaust fan along with the main floor bedroo and hall lights.

    I'll try to figure out the sump/furnace and laundry area.

  7. #22
    Remodel Contractor GabeS's Avatar
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    Kitchen should have more than 3 circuits.

    As someone else said, just run extra. Code is minimum.

    I believe bath should have GFI on seperate circuit with nothing else, unless one circuit covers the entire bath ONLY. You could run to GFI's of seperate bathrooms, but only if that's the only thing on the circuit.
    Gabe

    Don't follow my advice, I only know a thing or two about a thing or two.

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member Master Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabeS View Post
    Kitchen should have more than 3 circuits.

    As someone else said, just run extra. Code is minimum.

    I believe bath should have GFI on seperate circuit with nothing else, unless one circuit covers the entire bath ONLY. You could run to GFI's of seperate bathrooms, but only if that's the only thing on the circuit.

    Really? Why do you think it needs more than 3? Not saying 3 receptacles, I'm saying 3 circuits. Maybe I should add, this isn't a HUGE Modern Kitchen. The main area of the kitchen will have the fridge, a gas range and hopefully a vent for the stove. Vent is questionable because of lack of ceiling height above stove. Will figure that out when I tear out a sofit in ceiling. I'm also not sure about a garbage disposal in the main sink, because I have a marble apron sink and if I can't get a good answer as to whether it is safe to hang one, I won't. Yes, the occaisonaly appliance will be brought out, but not enough countertop space for much. I'm thinking 2 circuits for this room. One for each wall.

    Then I have a current laundry area that is going to be converted to a small walk-in pantry. That is the 3rd circuit and will house the d/w, countertop microwave another sink, with disposal, and a few appliances. This isn't large enough to do lots of work in, so it won't have many appliances being run often in there. Maybe a toaster. I may add a 4th, depending upon the d/w I buy. Hmmm....

    The bath is one circuit, with nothing else on that circuit. One GFCI controls all the receptacles in the bath. Again, not a huge bath and it is 20amp.

  9. #24
    Extreme DIY Homeowner Scuba_Dave's Avatar
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    I run based on what could be or possible needs
    We have a counter Microwave - 1100 watts
    Toaster oven - 1500 watts
    Toaster - 800 watts
    Coffee maker - 1200 watts or more
    Crock pot - 1000+ watts - we have 3 going during a get together
    Pancake griddle - 1000+ watts
    Can opener - 100 watts
    Mixer - cakes, potatoes = 450 watts
    Think of everything else that may be plugged in: TV, radio, laptop, popcorn maker, ice cream maker, blenders (550w),

    You really don't need a gourmet kitchen, we had 3 blenders going one summer

    Do you really want to risk someone plugging something into the same outlet as your fridge & kicking the breaker?

    I figure the wiring could last 50 years or longer. So it's also about a future owners use. I only want to do electric once

    I'm looking at 7 total + 1 more in the sunroom
    I'll have 3 small appliance circuits
    Fridge
    Dishwasher
    Lights are on another circuit
    Microwave will have its own circuit - it will be in a cabinet
    Sunroom - open to the kitchen, we could have a table out there with crockpots, coffee maker etc
    DIY Handyman (not 4 hire)
    I have enough to do to my own house

  10. #25
    Geologist sjsmithjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Brian View Post
    Really? Why do you think it needs more than 3? Not saying 3 receptacles, I'm saying 3 circuits. Maybe I should add, this isn't a HUGE Modern Kitchen.
    My home is a 1948 Bungalow of less than 1000 square feet which I renovated three years ago. The kitchen measures 9x13 which includes small eat in bar. It might suprise you learn that I have three circuits for the countertops (including the bar), a lighting circuit, a dedicated circuit for the range hood (which came later), a dedicated circuit for the refrigerator, a dedicated cicruit for an electric range, and a dedicated circuit for the dishwasher. I do not have a garbage diposal, but we pulled the wire anyhow. We also pulled the wire for undercounter lights.

    I suggest you start with the requirements (i.e. code), add what it is recommended (i.e. a exhausting range hood over a gas range, circuit for the refrigerator, etc.), and go ahead a pull the wire for upgrades like a disposal now and whatever you do pull your permits and talk to the AHJ as soon as possible.

    "This doesn't look like the usual DIY job, nice work." is not a bad thing to hear from inspectors and appraisers. The added value, safety, and convienence are worth going the extra mile if you ask me.
    Last edited by sjsmithjr; 01-29-2009 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Left out a circuit
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  11. #26
    DIY Senior Member Master Brian's Avatar
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    You guys make some good points. I'll look into more circuits. I still have plenty of room to go in my panel. I'm not sure if it is a 30slot or 40slot panel, but I do have a subfeed in basement and in the garage and I only buy the double breakers, since all my empty slots take those.

    Code will definately dictate what I do.....then I'll look at the appliances that would be used on each circuit and do some math!

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
    ...You really don't need a gourmet kitchen, we had 3 blenders going one summer
    Now that sounds like a fun little get together!

  13. #28
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Brian View Post
    My understanding on the microwave was that if built in it needed a seperate circuit, if not, then it could use the small appliance circuit. Hmmm....

    Thanks for the idea on the fridge for being 1st, whomever said that. I think I'm going to have 3 dedicated circuits for my kitchen area. I will probably try to include the fridge and possibly the d/w on those. The fridge will be on a wall, with only two 24" wide countertops, so not much room for appliances, but that will hopefully meet code. The D/W will be in a walk-in pantry, so not many appliances will be in use there either.

    My bath is on two circuits. 1(20amp) feeds all receptacles and a pair of wall sconces, the other(15amp) feeds the ceiling light and exhaust fan along with the main floor bedroo and hall lights.

    I'll try to figure out the sump/furnace and laundry area.
    Brian

    In the original post you said;
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Brian View Post
    I have been looking through the 2008 NEC and I am trying to do a floorplan layout. Thanks
    If this is a true statement then all you need is the section number so you can see the verbiage of the code for yourself.
    Look closely at 210.23(A)(1) and (2). You will see that the idea of
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Brian View Post
    I will probably try to include the fridge and possibly the d/w on those.
    might be a bad idea.

  14. #29
    Geologist sjsmithjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    Last time my hubby worked on the dishwasher, he unplugged it... is yours hardwired in?
    Mine is, and according to the local inspector, it had to be for my particular installation. For a corded dishwasher, the requirement was that the receptacle be located in accessible location, which he interpreted as being under the kitchen sink. The cord could be no more 4 feet in length (which I think is a local requirement). Hence mine had to be hardwired.
    Last edited by sjsmithjr; 01-30-2009 at 11:07 AM.
    -Sam Smith
    Licensed Professional Geologist - AL, TN, KY

  15. #30
    Electrician Chris75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsmithjr View Post
    Mine is, and according to the local inspector, it had to be for my particular installation. For a corded dishwasher, the requirement was that the receptacle be located in accessible location, which he interpreted as being under the kitchen sink. The cord could be no more 4 feet in length (which I think is a local requirement). Hence mine had to be hardwired.

    The cord can be longer than 4', it can ONLY be 3' to 4' from the actual plug to the plane of the rear of the appliance, so in other words, since the dishwasher is 24" deep, I could install a 6' cord and meet code.


    422.16 Flexible Cords.
    (2) Built-in Dishwashers and Trash Compactors
    Built-in dishwashers and trash compactors shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug connected with a flexible cord identified as suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer where all of the following conditions are met:

    (1) The flexible cord shall be terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
    Exception: A listed dishwasher or trash compactor distinctly marked to identify it as protected by a system of double insulation, or its equivalent, shall not be required to be terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
    (2) The length of the cord shall be 0.9 m to 1.2 m (3 ft to 4 ft) measured from the face of the attachment plug to the plane of the rear of the appliance.
    (3) Receptacles shall be located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.
    (4) The receptacle shall be located in the space occupied by the appliance or adjacent thereto.
    (5) The receptacle shall be accessible.
    Last edited by Chris75; 01-30-2009 at 01:22 PM.

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