Adding a new 1/2 Bath, need help.

First, thank you in advance. I appreciate all feedback, good and bad.

I currently have a finished room (18 x 13) above my garage, attached is a partially finished space (6 x 13) which is currently used as a closet for storage. I would like to convert this closet to a 1/2 bath which would consist of a toilet and a sink.

Previously, prior to my purchase of the home, the hot water heater was located in this space (it was relocated to the garage, also before my purchase). There are some capped water lines and a 2" vent pipe running within the closet walls.

Before moving forward I think it is pertinent to mention that I have a concrete slab. I had two plumbers out to provide quotes for the necessary work and each had very different approaches.

The first plumber recommended that we add a 3" pipe from the closet down into the garage (inside wall of the garage). Once in the garage he would run the pipe along an I-beam across the garage to the outside wall (front of the house) and through the outside wall. I should mention that the outside wall is brick. Once outside the pipe would be run underground and connected to the existing sewer line.

The second plumber had a completely different idea. He recommended that we use some sort of unit (pump) that would essentially liquefy any sewage. Once liquefied he advised we could then use the 2" vent pipe to dispose of the sewage. It should be noted that there is a laundry sink in the garage plumbed to drain using this same vent pipe. I am sorry I do not have further details regarding the recommended equipment (pump), I was unable to leave work to meet with the plumber so I had my father stand in for me. The plumber is suppose to e-mail me the quote, hopefully I will have more information then (if needed).

Thank you to everyone who is able to provide any assistance or information.

Not sure of your layout with some type of drawing or pictures. The lift would work but that becomes a maintenance issue later down the road. It would be better to tie into the sewer main if possible.

I could try some drawings, but I am not sure they would help - I have trouble with stick figures....

I'm assuming that the "lift" would be the liquefying pump that plumber #2 referenced, is this correct?

Thanks again.

You'd still have to run a new drain line. The washing machine needs to be on its own run to the next larger pipe, plus, if that line is a vent for the washing machine (does it continue up through the roof?), it can't be used as a drain line. Do you know how the drain runs out of the house? You might not need to break up much concrete to do a conventional gravity drain, which would be the best. You need a 3" drain line for that.

jadnashua said:

You'd still have to run a new drain line. The washing machine needs to be on its own run to the next larger pipe, plus, if that line is a vent for the washing machine (does it continue up through the roof?), it can't be used as a drain line. Do you know how the drain runs out of the house? You might not need to break up much concrete to do a conventional gravity drain, which would be the best. You need a 3" drain line for that.

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First, thank you for the response. The washing machine is not connected to the 2" vent pipe, the object connected is a laundry or utility sink....sorry if my original post wasn't clear. The vent pipe does continue through the roof and I believe that it actually runs back into the house.

My home is "L" shaped with the garage on the front left, kitchen on the back left, master bath on the back right and second bath on the front right. The 2" pipe in question has a clean-out on it, which we had to use back in May in an attempt to solve a sewage blockage. The plumber I hired in May put a "snake" in to this clean-out and after a few hundred feet determined that the pipe (and snake) went from the clean-out to the kitchen to the master bath to the second bath and then exited the front right of the house. Upon exiting the home, the pipe (with no clean-outs) traveled straight for approximately 3 feet under a planting bed before making a forty-five degree left-hand turn (while looking at the front of the home) under the driveway and through my front yard to the sewer main. I will try to draw a picture tomorrow and post it here....I cannot promise anything (see stick figure reference above).

Anyhow, in order to reach the sewer main (without just going with option #1 from my original post) would require me to rip up approximately 20 feet of concrete in my garage.

Do you know of or have a name/information regarding the system that plumber #2 was referencing?

Southpaw134 said:

Do you know of or have a name/information regarding the system that plumber #2 was referencing?

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It will be something similar to this. Yes, it can be tied into that 2" stack. We have installed these only when there is no alternative way.

http://www.femyers.com/products/sse/sse_cmv1830.html

C NUMB said:

It will be something similar to this. Yes, it can be tied into that 2" stack. We have installed these only when there is no alternative way.

http://www.femyers.com/products/sse/sse_cmv1830.html

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Thanks C NUMB, I think I am leaning toward the convential gravity drain. I agree with your original post in reference to maintenance issues down the road.

A gravity drain wherever possible is always preferred to a pump system.

I question running it through the garage and outside wall before taking it into the ground.

Redwood said:

A gravity drain wherever possible is always preferred to a pump system.

I question running it through the garage and outside wall before taking it into the ground.

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I question that as well Redwood. There is an alternate and shorter route, but I am not sure it would work. I do not see why it wouldn't, but then again I'm not a plumber.

I plan on taking some video of the area and posting it for suggestion, this will be better then my attempt to draw anything.

drain

IF the pump is connected to the vent above the sink or washer drain, it will PROBABLY siphon the water out of the trap every time it runs. The higher the connection the more probable it will be that it will happen. Pumps create their own problems, therefore, they are normally only used when there is absolutely no other option.

Ok so I have 4 videos that show different aspects of this project that I feel are important, please let me know if I am missing anything.

Bath Video 1
Bath Video 2
Bath Video 3
Bath Video 4

I received my first quote today, and I am interested in what some of you would project or estimate a job like this costing.

26 seconds into vid #3- are you sure that is a 2' vent. Either its a 3" stack reduced at the CO tee to 2" or its a 2" reduced to 1 1/2" hard to tell from that vid. Of course your problem would be solved if 3" at the base.

Looking at the vids, What I would do is cut the ceiling open in the garage, determine the floor system used(TGI or Pre Engineered) and which way they run. You might be able to hang the main line in the ceiling, if not box it in. Next I would plan on exiting the main between to two windows in the garage. The front corner you pointed out is a main support for the home, if concrete block exterior wall construction it should be poured solid with re-bar, if fame construction there will be additional studs,strapping, and 5/8 rod tie downs. The tie in to the sewer will be the easiest part of this job. Not that far away from point of exit.

Water should be easy if the water heater was located in the room you are converting into the bath, the capped lines should be the cold and hot you need.

C NUMB said:

26 seconds into vid #3- are you sure that is a 2' vent. Either its a 3" stack reduced at the CO tee to 2" or its a 2" reduced to 1 1/2" hard to tell from that vid. Of course your problem would be solved if 3" at the base.

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It's funny you mentioned that, I had the same thought last night. It was late so I didn't go to check, but it surely would make my life easier if the base was a 3".

Unfortunately for me it's a 2" down to a 1 1/2".

In my experience when the drain for that utility sink enters the garage floor it usually is 3" or 4" pipe under there If that is the case you can tie directly into the existing drain there instead of running a whole new line out in the yard. I think it would be worth moving the sink and breaking open the floor to see what kind of drain pipes you have under there. If it is not of the right size just look at it as the start of your new project.

SewerRatz said:

In my experience when the drain for that utility sink enters the garage floor it usually is 3" or 4" pipe under there If that is the case you can tie directly into the existing drain there instead of running a whole new line out in the yard. I think it would be worth moving the sink and breaking open the floor to see what kind of drain pipes you have under there. If it is not of the right size just look at it as the start of your new project.

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I guess that's one way to look at it.

I hope that is the case, it would certainly make things easier (and cheaper).

SewerRatz said:

In my experience when the drain for that utility sink enters the garage floor it usually is 3" or 4" pipe under there If that is the case you can tie directly into the existing drain there instead of running a whole new line out in the yard. I think it would be worth moving the sink and breaking open the floor to see what kind of drain pipes you have under there. If it is not of the right size just look at it as the start of your new project.

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My bet would be 2" and turned up thru the slab in the footer between the garage and home. It is how its done in the south. There will be no line under garage floor. The laundry drain will be tied into the waste system under the rest of the home and exiting where the cleanout is.

On another note, SewerRatz brings another idea, dig along the sidewalk to see if there is a line running into the garage towards the laundry tub stack from those cleanouts.

Why is there 2 cleanouts out in the front of the home? Normally there is only one unless there was an addition added at some point in time.

C NUMB said:

My bet would be 2" and turned up thru the slab in the footer between the garage and home. It is how its done in the south. There will be no line under garage floor. The laundry drain will be tied into the waste system under the rest of the home and exiting where the cleanout is.

On another note, SewerRatz brings another idea, dig along the sidewalk to see if there is a line running into the garage towards the laundry tub stack from those cleanouts.

Why is there 2 cleanouts out in the front of the home? Normally there is only one unless there was an addition added at some point in time.

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I can 100% confirm that there is no line running directly from the garage to the cleanouts. In May we had roots clog our sewer line (at the street, see green paint in video 1 above) and I personally excavated the planting bed around the cleanouts. When the problem occurred there were no grade level cleanouts, it took myself and two plumbers about 3 hours of probing to locate them. I am not sure why there is two, they were originally buried about 3 1/2 feet underground. To my knowledge, there has been no addition made to this home.

I am not opposed to excavating the enitre planting bed and running a 3" line from the cleanouts to the laundry tub and then up to the potential bath above.

Does anyone see a problem with doing this?