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Thread: Fan control for receptacle within fireplace - to code?

  1. #16
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteD View Post
    My documentation is really the only one that applies, as the MFG can change the specs and manual at any time. As a result, I am not convinced that 110.3(B) applies.Thanks,
    Pete

    Well then quit posting and start installing if you don't think that anything applies

    Why even waste time asking if you already have the answer?

  2. #17
    DIY Member PeteD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    Well then quit posting and start installing if you don't think that anything applies

    Why even waste time asking if you already have the answer?
    EDIT: I worded that badly - of course the code applies - just not sure the install would be in violation of that part of the code. Besides, you convinced me that installing the VRUW is in my best interest.

    I appreciate your help and I am going to focus my energies now on getting the manufacturer to supply the VRUW. My electrician is on vacation in the near term anyway.

    Pete
    Last edited by PeteD; 01-23-2009 at 02:21 PM.

  3. #18
    DIY Member PeteD's Avatar
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    Finally got the VRUW. It is actually a simple solid state triac control:

    http://www.kb-controls.com/product.s...&productId=106

    This is what I suspected, but the peace of mind doesn't hurt.

    No wonder Lennox claims to not have the specs - they sell it for over $70 usually, and I paid $68. Ouch.

    I found this part of the instructions interesting:
    "Ground(earth)** - Be sure to ground control using the green wire.

    **Some models do not require grounding. Therefore grounding wire is not provided.
    "

    I'm no expert, but isn't a ground wire a good thing to have?

    Pete

  4. #19
    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    Most of these rheostats are mounted in metal boxes with side straps. The box mounts inside under the fire box where all the other electronics and gas valve are. Since it mounts to the metal enclosure it is inherently grounded and needs no additional green wire.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteD View Post

    No wonder Lennox claims to not have the specs - they sell it for over $70 usually, and I paid $68. Ouch.
    While I agree it's steep, it is the box and wiring that you are also paying for.
    No one said these fire places were cheap.
    Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC. If you're on the '14 already I feel sorry for you.

  5. #20
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    No one said these fire places were cheap.
    Or safe ,

  6. #21
    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    Or safe ,
    Oh no. I have wired dozens of these.
    Use the appropriate parts and they are fine, AND easy.
    Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC. If you're on the '14 already I feel sorry for you.

  7. #22

    Default Location of UZY5 thermodisc

    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    Installation of the blower kit
    model UZY5
    ...
    3. Install the automatic blower activator on
    the side of the firebox (the blower activator
    has a magnetic mount).
    ...
    Can anyone help with THE EXACT location of the thermodisc activator? The statement "on the side of the firebox" is really vague.

    I have the Lennox ME43 (which Lennox bought from SecurityChimneys) which uses the UZY5 blower kit. But there's no real detail on where to place the thermodisc.

    Any help would be appreciated.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    The DDH16 fan speed control is an electronic device and the fan diagram calls for a rheostat. There is a big difference between the two and the electronic device and motors could suffer severe damage if used together.
    I agree that there's a big difference between a rheostat and an electronic motor control (i.e. "electronic device"), but could you explain how an electronic control could cause a motor to "suffer severe damage if used together"? My experience is with industrial contollers so maybe there's something to household devices that I'm missing, but I can't think of any instance where a rheostat would be preferable to a PWM (aside from cost). I suspect the "Rheostat" label on the wiring diagram was just an anachronism - which would seem to be supported by the fact that the actual part the OP eventually received was in fact an electronic motor control.

    For those unfamiliar with the two devices, a Rheostat is a variable resistor and works by reducing the voltage delivered to the load - this is inefficient, as the excess current is expended as heat, and running a motor at reduced voltage (think "brown out") typically reduces motor life. An electronic motor control always delivers full voltage -- but for adjustable segments of time (think flipping a switch on and off really fast).

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by whistlepigger View Post
    Can anyone help with THE EXACT location of the thermodisc activator? The statement "on the side of the firebox" is really vague.
    I would call the manufacturer and ask.

    I would think higher up to detect the heat sooner (heat rises), however sometimes manufacturers experience problems with components failing for one reason or another.

    It is possible for example that if these are mounted at the very top, the intense heat could cause them to fail, and the manufacturer might then recommend that they be mounted lower down. Or maybe not.

    But if there is a best spot to mount it, the manufacturer would know. (They hear about all the problems people have.)

  10. #25
    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    The ones I have done have had a stud sticking down and you install the sensor bracket to that stud with a wing nut.
    Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC. If you're on the '14 already I feel sorry for you.

  11. #26

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    What you have purchased is a UL listed assembly. The assembly is listed and labeled as tested by UL laboratories. The optional equipment is also UL approved for the specific products that it was tested on.

    If you alter or use products that are not listed or labeled for that specific piece of equipment then you are voiding not just the warranty but also taking on all of the liability if something were to happen. In addition, you will be violating the NEC and it will not be able to be approved by the AHJ although I am questioning your AHJ's judgement and competency with what he has already recommended to you.

    If you have been waiting for 6 months then maybe you should take it all back and install a better product. They obviously cannot provide adequate service.

    The heat sensor and fan on/off switch or rheostat are normally never attached to each other except through wiring. Most switches cannot operate at the same temperature that the heat sensor can anyway.
    http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/forum.php
    My answers are based mostly on the ICC codes. Advice given is my personal opinion and every person performing work should acquire a permit from his/her jurisdiction and get the work inspected. My opinions are not directions to follow for DIYs or professionals

  12. #27
    DIY Member PeteD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    Most of these rheostats are mounted in metal boxes with side straps. The box mounts inside under the fire box where all the other electronics and gas valve are. Since it mounts to the metal enclosure it is inherently grounded and needs no additional green wire.



    While I agree it's steep, it is the box and wiring that you are also paying for.
    No one said these fire places were cheap.
    Funny that this was revived, but actually, that price was only for the speed control and metal handy box. The other stuff was priced separately. Yes, Ouch!

    Double ouch when I could have just installed the Pass and Seymour like I wanted to, which is rated for PSC fans, as is the VRUW.

    FWIW, there is noticeable hum when close to the fireplace with the installed VRUW. So, the VRUW is basically a cheap, overpriced POS.

    The fireplace rocks though...

    Pete

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