New well just hit water today! Pump help?

[madrone]

Our well guy just finished drilling today and got us 15gpm at 220ft. It's not as much as we hoped for but will work for our domestic and 3/4 acre mini farm. I'm hoping for some input on the pump detail if anyone help.
I really like the driller but don't have all that much cash to spend on the pump as the drilling/casing is already about $9000. He's suggesting a Franklin quickpac 1 1/2hp. constant pressure system with tank, drop pipe, wire and a few other details for a total of $3600.
This is quite a lot more than I wanted to spend and I'm not really sold on the Constant pressure system. I don't mind building and insulating a well house and using a large tank but from reading online here about a CSV I thought maybe we could use a smaller tank and just a regular 3 phase.
Any suggestions and recommended pumps/controllers would be more that appreciated.

[valveman]

If your pumping level is 220', then you need a 15 or 18 GPM, 2 HP submersible pump. Use a regular 240V, single phase motor and control box. Hang the pump on some 200 PSI poly pipe and use 12-4 or 12-3 with a ground for wire. Then all you need to control it is a Pside-kick complete pump control kit, like the one pictured below. These are designed to replace the Quick-Pac. The Quick-Pac is an expensive and short lived variable speed system that is designed to make Franklin Electric a lot of money at your expense. The Pside-kick uses a Cycle Stop Valve to replace variable speed controllers. The CSV will increase the life of regular pumps and gives better constant pressure control than variable speed systems. Pump guys who are still using variable speed systems just haven't had enough experience with them to realize that they will destroy their reputation. Variable speed systems are old technology. We learned all the problems of variable speed systems and stopped using them completely in 1993. There are a lot of things about Variable speed technology that mother nature won't let anyone fix, so these systems will never be problem free.

I don't see how Franklin can continue to sell these systems for so much money. You can buy a variable speed controller on the Internet for $200 that is far superior to the Franklin units. However, these other variable speed systems still have all the same problems. Search this site for "CU301". This is a Grundfos variable speed controller that much better than the Franklin systems but, are still being replaced by the CSV on a regular basis.

The best use of new technology is to be able to research the problems of new technology. You are smart to be asking these questions and studying the alternatives before you get stuck with a "tar baby".

[madrone]

Thanks for the input. The CSV looks way better to me than the Franklin.
I'm wondering about tank size now.
This well is 500' from the house and 200' the opposite direction to the field. We'll be sending water to the house in 1" pvc and to the field in 1 1/2. Most of the irrigation is dripline but we hope to use some 2" aluminum pipe with about 6-8 rainbirds at a time.
I tried using the rainbird site to help figure max usage but got completely overwhelmed.
Any guess if the pside kick will be suitable for my water demands or if i'll need a bigger tank, etc?
Thanks again for all the help.

Also, do you have a good pump recommendation?

[Gary Slusser]

You need to provide more info, like the diameter of the well?

The static water level?

The total depth of the well?

Is this a fully cased and screened well or rock bore with so much casing and then just a hole from there down? If rock bore, how much casing?

If a screened well, what depth is the screening and how long is each piece if more than one?

One continuous piece of PE pipe (polyethylene) down the well and then to the house and out to the field is much better than PVC with 10'-20' pieces and couplers. You can buy PE in many different pressure ratings and rolls from 100' to a 1000'. It is the slickest material (least friction loss) for water lines and your house probably doesn't need more than 1".

How many bathrooms and any large tubs or showers?

This well guy sure is proud of his drilling and pump and such!

Where are you putting the pressure tank?

How do you know you need 2" to the field when you can't say how many gpm etc, the irrigation is going to need?

How many zones and what gpm per each zone?

Where are you located; what state and what part of the state? What type soil do you have?

[madrone]

Ok, let me answer as much as I can. And Thanks for your time.

-The well is steel cased at 8" to 160' then pvc 6" to 225'.
-Static level is not determined yet but as the well is very similar to the neighbors I'd say static is about 150'.
-Total depth is 225'.
-No rock bore, I think he said 3 screens but I don't know their size.
-The house pvc is already in use from neighbors well. We will be splicing in from our new well into the pipe already buried.
-1 Bathroom, with shower and sink. Kitchen sink, and outdoor sink.
-Pressure tank will be in well house.
-The mainline to the field from the well house will be 1 1/2 poly. to about 7 hose bib risers and 1 2" gate valve for aluminum overhead with 6-8 rainbirds.
-I am in NW Oregon with medium clay soil.
Hope this helps.

[valveman]

If the well will only produce 15 GPM, then that is all you have to work with. That is plenty of water for the house. You will just need to limit your irrigation to 15 GPM, if you can irrigate during off peak times for the house. If you must irrigate during times when the house may need water, I would not use more than 10 GPM for the irrigation.

Your pump supplies the water. The pressure tank is just to keep the pump from cycling on and off too often. With a CSV you don't have to worry about cycling, so a very small tank is all you need. The pump has to be large enough to supply the demand, a larger pressure tank will not help that at all.

If 15 GPM is not enough to supply your needs, then a cistern or storage tank would be needed. The well would fill the cistern, and a separate pump would supply water out of the cistern at a flow rate higher than 15 GPM. I think 15 GPM is plenty to do everything you desire. You just may have to run 5 or 6 sprinklers instead of 7 or 8 at a time.

[madrone]

So we've been looking at the CSV website and think that a 34 gallon tank would keep the pump from cycling often and yet cover us in case of an irrigation leak. Input please?
We've also set our sights on a 1.5 hp. 19+/- gpm. 4" pump with a Franklin motor but wonder if anyone has a suggestion on a decent quality, low cost unit.
Thanks,
Mark

[valveman]

The 1.5 HP pump will give you about 14 GPM at that depth and pressure. That should be fine. Nothing wrong with a 32 gallon tank. That tank only holds about 7 gallons of water. You are really not helping anything by going any larger than a 20 gallon size tank but, it won't hurt a thing.

[Robert444]

Valveman, I just took a look at some Grundfos pumps on that site, and I've got a question. The pumps are listed with different numbers of stages--6 stage,9 stage, 21 stage etc. etc. What are the stages?

[valveman]

More stages means more pressure and less volume. Fewer stages means more volume and less pressure. Grundfos has a 16 GPM pump that in the 1.5 HP model has 14 stages. Goulds has an 18 GPM with 11 stages. Some 15 GPM models have about 12 stages. Anything over an 18 GPM in a 1.5 HP, will not build enough pressure to work from 220'.