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Thread: Lincoln Power Mig 140C Wiring

  1. #1

    Default Lincoln Power Mig 140C Wiring

    I just purchased a Lincoln Power Mig welder model 140C that Lincoln advertises as follows: “Wide 30-140 amp welding output range is the highest output in 120 volt input power welder class.”

    In the operator's manual the requirement for the advertised maximum output states: "In order to utilize the maximum output capability of the machine, a branch circuit capable of 25 amps at 120 volts, 60 Hertz is required". The manual also states the recommended input fuse size is a 20 amp breaker and recommended input amps are 20.

    The design of the Power Mig 140C type 5-15P power cord input does not provide for 25 amps at 120 volts because no 25 amp receptacle exists where a type 5-15P power cord will plug into it. However it will plug into a 20 amp receptacle. It's not possible to obtain a 25 amp breaker or a 25 amp (or larger amperage) receptacle that matches the 5-15P power cord. Beyond 20 amps a 30 amp circuit is the next highest circuit according to industry practice.

    I certainly would appreciate any suggestions or insight in how to safely and legally obtain the advertised maximum output of my new welder without modifying the welder's NEMA Type 5-15P power cord.

  2. #2
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Install a 20 amp circuit with a 20 amp receptacle and plug in the welder and burn up some metal

  3. #3

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    Thanks jwelectric, I wish it were that easy. By going the 20 amp circuit route the 140C welder will max out at delivering 120 amps DC instead of the advertised 140 . I suppose if there's no other alternative I'll have to go with the 20 amp circuit. It really bothers me that Lincoln advertises a 140 amp output when (as far as far as I can see) there is no legal way of achieving it.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    It's possible that that is a peak rather than continuous rating, and that it will produce that, for a moment. CB take awhile (usually) before they trip when the current is exceeded - could be a very short time or seconds, or maybe even longer.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #5
    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    Here is my reply from another forum you posted this to:

    You would definitely need a 30A/120v circuit for this. Even that is technically non-complaint since it would violate the individual load rating of 80%.

    Do they give an advice on how to obtain this 25A/120v input? Such as changing the cord set?

    There is NO WAY you will be able to safely and legally obtain a 25A input with typical 15 or 20A receptacles and circuits.

    I gotta ask, why didn't you just get a 240v welder???
    Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC. If you're on the '14 already I feel sorry for you.

  6. #6
    Sr. Systems Engineer, Biotech
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    I replaced the ridiculously short 6' and power cord on my Lincoln 175 with 25' length of 8/3 SOOW. I also ran a dedicated 40A line to the garage using 8/2. I've been happily melting metal for 5 years with it. The duty cycle of the welder says a lot for what it actually draws from the wall.

  7. #7

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    Speedy Petey, I bought the 120 volt welder for portability and the availability of 120 volt outlets (away from my garage) as well as the relatively light material I weld. My fault for not going beyond the advertising and investigating the real world capabilities of the welder. Output at 15 amps will be be approximately 90 amps DC. I would prefer to have the full 140 amp capacity in my garage so I've been thinking of a 30 amp 120 volt circuit with 30 amp receptacle and using an RV converter to plug the NEMA type 5-15P into.

  8. #8

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    I went to the Lincoln website and looked at the owners manual for your welder.

    All you need is a 20A circuit and you are perfectly legal and will achieve the full output range on your welder.

    You can run a 20A circuit with 12awg wire and even use a 15A receptacle and you will be fine and code compliant.

    Plug it into any 20A circuit that is not running anything else and it will work to its full capacity.

    120 V 60 Hz 20 Amp 20 15 Amp, 125 V, 3 Conductor # 12 AWG
    Three Prong Plug (4mm2) or Larger
    (NEMA Type 5-15P)
    http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/forum.php
    My answers are based mostly on the ICC codes. Advice given is my personal opinion and every person performing work should acquire a permit from his/her jurisdiction and get the work inspected. My opinions are not directions to follow for DIYs or professionals

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by vstoyko View Post
    Speedy Petey, I bought the 120 volt welder for portability and the availability of 120 volt outlets (away from my garage) as well as the relatively light material I weld. My fault for not going beyond the advertising and investigating the real world capabilities of the welder. Output at 15 amps will be be approximately 90 amps DC. I would prefer to have the full 140 amp capacity in my garage so I've been thinking of a 30 amp 120 volt circuit with 30 amp receptacle and using an RV converter to plug the NEMA type 5-15P into.
    You have a 120v model, don't try to use 30A as it will not help you the way the unit is set up. Call Lincoln and aske them.

    If you planned on needed at least 140A for mig then you should have upsized.

    This is a handy unit and I used it in the past with argon.
    http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/forum.php
    My answers are based mostly on the ICC codes. Advice given is my personal opinion and every person performing work should acquire a permit from his/her jurisdiction and get the work inspected. My opinions are not directions to follow for DIYs or professionals

  10. #10

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    jar546, excerpts from the 140C manual:

    Standard Voltage/Frequency Input Current
    120 V / 60 Hz 20 Amps @ rated output

    Rated Output
    Duty Cycle Current Voltage at Rated Amperes
    20% Duty Cycle 90 Amps 19.5 volts

    Welding Current Range Open Circuit Voltage
    30-140 Amps 33 V

    Fuse or Breaker Size 1,2
    20 Amp

    1. If connected to a circuit protected by fuses use Time Delay Fuse marked “D”.
    2. Requirements For Maximum Output
    In order to utilize the maximum output capability of the machine, a branch circuit capable of 25 amps at 120 volts, 60 Hertz is required.

    As you can see the input current is 20 amps @ the rated output which is 20% duty cycle, 90 amps and 19.5 volts.

    It's not that I have an immediate need for the advertised 140 amps....It's the manufacturer's questionable advertising that causes the problem. Should I need the full capacity (140 amps) in the future it's not available. Not exactly goods received as advertised and definitely a bit of deception.

    I emailed Lincoln support 3 days ago and the automated response I received stated that they try to respond in 2 business days but I'm not holding my breath on receiving any type of support.

  11. #11

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    Yeah I see the problem. The plug that comes with it and the rating say one thing. In order to get maximum amps you need another. Problem is that they say you need it but don't have it set up to accept that. You would have to make an illegal install in order to gain maximum amps unless they can provide you with better manufacturer installation specifications.
    http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/forum.php
    My answers are based mostly on the ICC codes. Advice given is my personal opinion and every person performing work should acquire a permit from his/her jurisdiction and get the work inspected. My opinions are not directions to follow for DIYs or professionals

  12. #12
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Kind of like the Horsepower number you see on vacuum cleaners, shop vacs, etc. They show a large HP number in BIG print, and fine print will say that is "peak" or something like that. It is NOT a 4 HP motor!

    Sometimes, like in pool pump motors, they use an HP rating + service factor multiplier. You have to read all the fine print.

    Or, like PT Barnum said, there is a sucker born every minute!

  13. #13
    Sr. Systems Engineer, Biotech
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    Being in the fitness industry for 5 years, there was always a competetor that would try to throw something out there. Our 120V treadmills were rated 19A, 3HP continuous duty. Competetors had 120V treadmills with 6HP - treadmill-duty motors. I'd always get the question at tradeshows. No problem, I'd show them a 1200V SCR spike, then claim ours to be 30HP treadmill-duty. Then I'd show them how it all gets calculated. It usually cleared things up well.

    My mother-in-law wants to buy one of the Black and Decker cordless mowers. They have two out there to look at. The spec on one only states '12 Amp'. The spec on the other only states '24 Volt'. How about they give me both numbers for both mowers?

  14. #14
    Homeowner Thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vstoyko View Post
    Standard Voltage/Frequency Input Current
    120 V / 60 Hz 20 Amps @ rated output
    120Vx20A=2400W

    Rated Output
    Duty Cycle Current Voltage at Rated Amperes
    20% Duty Cycle 90 Amps 19.5 volts
    90Ax19.5V=1755W

    Welding Current Range Open Circuit Voltage
    30-140 Amps 33 V
    2400W/33V=73A
    33Vx140A=4620W=39A@120V.

    A Q0 20A breaker can deliver 40A for 8 to 28 seconds before tripping.

    Advertising fraud?
    Dunno'.

    I don't weld, but I think they're depending on average current draw being within a 20A breaker's capacity most of the time. If you have some weld that takes 140A for more than 8 seconds you might be inconvenienced.

    Can you post a schematic/parts list? I'm thinking the 20% duty cycle depends on the internal transformer's I-squared-T rating. The whole setup might depend on assumed I-squared-T ratings of wires, sockets, breakers, everything.

    If anyone has a link to welding current vs. time I'd sure like to see it.
    Last edited by Thatguy; 01-14-2009 at 01:38 PM.

  15. #15
    Code Enforcement codeone's Avatar
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    My dad was a welder for a living. He used to tell me that the 20% duty cycle meant that the welder was good for only 20 min out of an hour. If you used it longer the unit would burn up because the temp ratings on the windings couldnt handle the heat.

    Dont know myself. However if you need more youll have to get a higher duty rating.

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