(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 114

Thread: DIY Again

  1. #16
    Extreme DIY Homeowner Scuba_Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    South of Boston, MA
    Posts
    885

    Default

    Frenchie, your point is pointless

    I'm not doing anything else to make money
    To say I have to subtract some imaginary number that I could make is stupid
    I don't HAVE to subtract ANYTHING
    I HAVE saved over $80k VS hiring someone

    My last house was sold by the bank at a big loss to avoid foreclosure
    The money I made was due to my work, not market change

    Dream on
    DIY Handyman (not 4 hire)
    I have enough to do to my own house

  2. #17
    DIY Junior Member jamiedolan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by frenchie View Post
    YOUR TIME IS WORTH SOMETHING. I'm not talking about the time that you spend being a parent, of course that's worth something, but it's irrelevant to the topic: which is your house-building activity. I'm not talking about your parenting or housework - I'm talking about your other job: the time you spend designing & planning & doing the work on your house. If you were to spend that time doing something else, what would/could it bring in? Suppose you were to hire out as a carpenter, for example, or as a designer.
    No offense intended to the OP or anyone else.

    Frenchie; I just wanted to say I agree with you. I have experienced and tried to explain this to people I know in real life and some people have a really hard time understanding my point.

    It's kind of a question of what your skilled at, if the OP is a store manager say and he could make $35 /hr if he worked, he might come out ahead if he was working and hired a contractor.

    However for some of us, due to family, health or other personal reasons, we choose not to or are unable to have a regular job. In these cases, you can "save money" if there is nothing else you would have been able to do with your time to make money.

    I agree no ones time and labor in a project like this is really free and should not be technically counted as such. But if it make the OP feel better to look at it that way, then it doesn't hurt anyone and make him feel good, so I'm all for it!

    Jamie

  3. #18
    Extreme DIY Homeowner Scuba_Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    South of Boston, MA
    Posts
    885

    Default

    Just a load of garbage from people who don't want to lose business from DIY people. I've tried to hire "Pro's" in the past. Over 8 plumbers & only 2 showed up to make a qoute. One was off the wall with an insane amount of money. The 2nd one didn't do the work as greed & wasn't paid in full. Over 8 electricians contacted to do work, 3-4 actually showed up & promised estimates. None followed thru
    If this is how "Pro's" treat the homeowner then it's no wonder you lose business

    Say I got a job for $30k
    Child care $12k a year (actually $18k at current rate we were quoted)
    Cost of a new car w/commuting $6k a year
    Cost of Gas over $3k a year (at todays rates)
    Taxes over $6k a year
    That's $27k a year

    Yes I saved $$, get over it
    Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 01-08-2009 at 11:43 AM.
    DIY Handyman (not 4 hire)
    I have enough to do to my own house

  4. #19
    Code Enforcement codeone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
    My last house was sold by the bank at a big loss to avoid foreclosure
    The money I made was due to my work, not market change
    Another words you still made money as you say due to your own work by not hiring a contractor?
    The money you lost was apparently the money you would have made if the house had sold in a timely fashion?
    So in essence you did ok because if you had hired a contractor or contractors you would have lost everything?
    This way you still feel good about what you did and still did not lose it all.
    Congrats keep it up.

  5. #20
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    200 miles south of Little Rock
    Posts
    2,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
    I agree no one's time and labor in a project like this is really free and should not be technically counted as such.
    Correct. "Money saved" and "money not spent" are not the same thing. My son-in-law and I have done a lot of work on our own here, and that means we have obviously not had to spend money to pay for the labor we have provided for ourselves. However, I have occasionally taken time off work at my regular job in order to help do some of the two-man work here, and that labor has cost me money even while saving some. Then also, many of us DIYers spend more time doing something than a contractor would have taken, and that factor occasionally ends up costing me more than if I had hired something done. Truly, not even my own labor while working on my own stuff is actually free ... but then the fringe benefits when my wife appreciates the completion of something are almost always invaluable even though she charges me nothing!

  6. #21
    Code Enforcement codeone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Every one looks at things differently, sometimes its the way a person feels about it.

    Making money or losing money are very different things sometimes.

    Example a big corp may say they lost money this quarter, in effect what they are really saying we didnt make as much money as last quarter. And they still made a profit.

    And it really dosent matter what anyone else thinks if you can justify it for youself, not go broke and feel good about yourself and have high self esteem, as long as you dont look down on others who think differently, And dont try to force their own opinion on someonelse. Life is to short for some of these arguments. They become redundant and a waist of time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

    We need to try to help one another, not hinder and tear down. Do no harm.

  7. #22
    Radon Contractor and Water Treatment 99k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairfield Co.,Connecticut
    Posts
    460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by frenchie View Post
    I didn't say being a stay-at-home dad was a cop-out; I said your answer was a cop-out. Read my post again, before you jump down my throat.


    YOUR TIME IS WORTH SOMETHING. I'm not talking about the time that you spend being a parent, of course that's worth something, but it's irrelevant to the topic: which is your house-building activity. I'm not talking about your parenting or housework - I'm talking about your other job: the time you spend designing & planning & doing the work on your house. If you were to spend that time doing something else, what would/could it bring in? Suppose you were to hire out as a carpenter, for example, or as a designer.

    To get an accurate idea of how much you saved, you HAVE to substract that amount from your gross savings - to get your net savings.


    And I also said, very clearly, that I'm sure you saved money. I'm just trying to get an accurate idea of what you saved. If you count your labor as free, that's not accurate.

    Neither is lumping the money you made off market changes, as per your example. You need to compare what it actually cost you (including your time), to what it would have cost you to hire somebody. What you made off the housing market swings isn't relevant: that's profit, not wages. You would have made it even if you'd hired someone to do the work.
    I agree Frenchie... you're spot on. This gentleman has a very good skill set and in my area a good handyman gets $60 - $75 /hr and has a backlog of work. I don't think you're picking on him but instead making a great point.

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member Nate R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Frenchie's point is very valid. There are some things in which your time is worth something. If it costs me $40 to have my oil changed in my car, and I can do it myself for $16, but it takes me 3 hrs, I'm "paying myself" $8/hr to do the work myself.

    Looking at things this way will sometimes show you things that just aren't worth wasting time doing. You don't know how much time you have left on earth.

  9. #24
    Radon Contractor and Water Treatment 99k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairfield Co.,Connecticut
    Posts
    460

    Default

    One great lesson in life that I never really grasped until my mid-forties was that it is better to try to make money instead of saving money. It is better to outsource something you are not proficient at and instead do an extra job in your specialty ... much less stress and a lot more progress. Don't get me wrong, I still DIY jobs ... this summer I installed an trimmed three new windows (I know my quality would probably exceed others) but I outsourced the roof (even though I could do it). Just my two cents

  10. #25

    Default

    To me it is better to save money, the money makes more money itself.

  11. #26
    Extreme DIY Homeowner Scuba_Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    South of Boston, MA
    Posts
    885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by codeone View Post
    Another words you still made money as you say due to your own work by not hiring a contractor?
    The money you lost was apparently the money you would have made if the house had sold in a timely fashion?
    So in essence you did ok because if you had hired a contractor or contractors you would have lost everything?
    This way you still feel good about what you did and still did not lose it all.
    Congrats keep it up.
    Uh, the house was sold to ME to avoid foreclosure
    I made a bundle
    Contractors are a waste of time around here
    At least until the economy took a dump
    Now some of them are begging for jobs & offering great rates

    I'm worth more then any contractor I've met
    And I've saved at least $80k on this house alone by not hiring incompetent people who do not even show up

    If I find a job that pays me over $100k a year maybe then I'll hire people
    Oh, but they won't show up anyways
    Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 01-08-2009 at 05:56 PM.
    DIY Handyman (not 4 hire)
    I have enough to do to my own house

  12. #27
    DIY Senior Member Nate R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
    If I find a job that pays me over $100k a year maybe then I'll hire people
    Oh, but they won't show up anyways
    My in-laws just did this for their kitchen remodel. Went terribly, horribly wrong at almost every turn. Having HD install anything is obviously a bad idea. But the independent flooring place did a crappy install, and there were countless other examples. Hiring out can sometimes be a nightmare, too. I'm shocked no one has yet figured out a better business model to streamline the remodeling process for the customer.

  13. #28
    Electrical Contractor sbrn33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fremont, NE
    Posts
    31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate R View Post
    My in-laws just did this for their kitchen remodel. Went terribly, horribly wrong at almost every turn. Having HD install anything is obviously a bad idea. But the independent flooring place did a crappy install, and there were countless other examples. Hiring out can sometimes be a nightmare, too. I'm shocked no one has yet figured out a better business model to streamline the remodeling process for the customer.
    They have!! It's called a General Contractor.

  14. #29
    Extreme DIY Homeowner Scuba_Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    South of Boston, MA
    Posts
    885

    Default

    Actually $80k saved, 10 year home equity loan would have cost us $108K
    So I saved even more!!!
    Oh, and of course I didn't save hundreds of dollars on the garage door I just installed by myself
    And I didn't save thousands of dollars running my 60a sub panel to my shed, rewiring 90% of my house, adding (2) buried circuits out front for my Christmas display, adding another 6 outside outlets, installing my own radiant floor heat & tiling my bathroom, shower & hallway
    And I didn't save thousands by installing my own patio out by the pool
    And I didn't save thousands by doing my own landscaping
    I didn't save any $$ by installing a solar water heater for my pool
    I don't save any money with my 24x30 veggie garden
    I didn't save any money by growing my own pumpkins
    And I didn't save any money by doing my own design work/plans for the addition

    DIY Handyman (not 4 hire)
    I have enough to do to my own house

  15. #30
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,633

    Default Diy

    This info seemed like it was the authors opinion instead of what the code required for a safe installation. One thing actually caused the boxes to be overfilled.
    Yet later you imply that you passed it. Getting a permit and inspections is completely useless if the improper work is going to be allowed. If that is the case, why go to the expense and trouble of getting either a permit or inspection? In that case the only thing a permit does is upgrade his taxing appraisal so he pays more each year.
    Last edited by Terry; 01-11-2009 at 08:50 AM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •