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Thread: New Disposal - 48 hours!

  1. #1
    DIY Member themp's Avatar
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    Default New Disposal - 48 hours!

    Took me around 48 hours to finish adding a new sink and disposal. And I am worried about the disposal drain. I replaced an 8 inch deep double sink with the same and the disposal is an Insinkerator Evolution Excel. The spec sheet showed a B dimension(bottom of sink to center of discharge tube) of 6 11/16 inches. My old disposal was at 8 inches for the same dimension. After I get the new disposal installed on the sink this B dimension is really 7 1/2 inches. If I put a level from the drain pipe in the wall to the disposal discharge I have a 1/4 inch drop over 10 inches.

    I had a heck of a time figuring out how to get the trap in this space. Here is a picture of my final solution.

    http://thehemps.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=22180

    Is there any other way to plumb this? The extension on the left side of the trap is what I am worried about. I could shorten this drop by cutting the disposal discharge tube, but I only gain an inch and need 1 1/2 inches to make the drain in the wall. I tried various ways to come straight out of the disposal but could not get it to work. The 1/4 inch drop is a worry also to me. But I was not about to attempt to lower the drain in the wall at this point as my wife wanted the kitchen back.

    Thanks, Tom

    P.S. Hope this does not make the 2009 Pig Slop page.
    Last edited by Terry; 01-04-2009 at 05:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    No double traps under a sink

    Dishwasher drain should be hooked to an Air Gap, then ran from the Air Gap to the barbed nipple on the garbage disposal.


    This keeps the chamber of the garbage disposal clear and free flowing.



    IF you leave that dishwasher drain hooked to the tapped tailpiece or the disposal without an Air Gap, you have a direct connection to the drainage system which poses a serious health risk.

    High looping the drain inside the cabinet does not solve this "direct connection" issue. It's code in many states and yours may or may not enforce the standard, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I guarantee you it is required on commercial applications in your state, no doubt.


    Running that wastewater from the dishwasher into the disposal also minimizes the sound, given there's a baffle on that side of the disposal's opening. The side you have it on, there's no way to lessen the sound without installing the basket strainer, which won't allow for draining during this.

    Last edited by Terry; 01-04-2009 at 05:50 PM.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  3. #3
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    BAD situation on the DW connection. And I can't see behind on the left, how those two trap arms come into the drain, but it can't be good!

  4. #4
    DIY Senior Member CarlH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUGGED View Post
    No double traps under a sink
    When my house built in the mid 90's, they put two traps under my kitchen sink much like what is in the picture here. I'm assuming that it is acceptable for the time and location when this work was done. Of course the inspector could have overlooked it. Is this a local code or a "universal" code requirement?

  5. #5
    DIY Member themp's Avatar
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    Ok, will work on the dishwasher connection with Air Gap. The drain coming out of the walk is black ABS pipe, a 45 Wye Double. Both traps run into it. House was built in 1984 and it was done this way. I remember specifically the plumber telling me that he was going to run the dishwasher drain to the left bowl because he said that dishwasher waste into the disposal would shorten its life. This disposal lasted over 24 years and was still running but sounded like a jet engine.

    I also agreed back then to doing the main house plumbing in black ABS, now it is hard to find. But was saving some money then.

    Tom

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    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    Those made the gallery

  7. #7
    Plunger/TurdPuncher kingsotall's Avatar
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    that wasn't nice

    When and if the DIYer gets the pipes dumping into one side of the double wye can that leave the other side for a cleanout¿

  8. #8
    One who lurks Basement_Lurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlH View Post
    When my house built in the mid 90's, they put two traps under my kitchen sink much like what is in the picture here. I'm assuming that it is acceptable for the time and location when this work was done. Of course the inspector could have overlooked it. Is this a local code or a "universal" code requirement?

    Are your two p-traps separately vented? Otherwise it's a no-no no matter where you are.
    Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me? -Jack Handy


    www.blackbirdkitchenandbath.com

  9. #9
    DIY Senior Member CarlH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basement_Lurker View Post
    Are your two p-traps separately vented? Otherwise it's a no-no no matter where you are.
    No separate vent. After the two traps there is the wye like in the picture here. Now you make me wonder why this is a no no. I have not had any problems with the traps not keeping sewer gases out. One of the nice things about having two traps is on the two occasions that a bunch of the peelings was stuffed down the disposer, only the trap for the disposer clogged. This left me with the other basin still draining.

  10. #10
    Plunger/TurdPuncher kingsotall's Avatar
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    And what did you do with the drain stuffed with peelings¿

  11. #11
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default drain

    That installation is not "double trapped" and two traps are used all the time when there is a height problem. The dishwasher to the tailpiece is ALSO a proper installation, since it is what is done when there is no disposer. The real problem is that the disposer drain is slightly below the opening in the wall, and there is no way to cure that without a plumbing revision.

  12. #12
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    Only thing I see wrong with that picture is the fact the trap on the disposal is having the extension between the U bend and the quarter bend, and the dishwasher does not loop high enough.

    To fix the height problem you need to open the wall and lower the sanitary tee in the wall. Having two p-traps is perfectly legal and having them on a single vent is legal as well. Here in Illinois the code states they want the disposal on its own trap separate from the other side of the sink, and you can not use the knock out on the disposal for a drain point for the dishwasher.

    Section 890.710 Food Waste Disposal Units

    a) Installation. Food waste disposal units shall be trapped separately from any other fixture or compartment, shall be connected directly to the sanitary drainage system, and shall be properly vented. Dishwashers shall not discharge into food waste disposal units. Units may have either automatic or hand-operated water supply control. (See Section 890.1130(a), (b) and (c).)



    b) Commercial-Type Grinders. Commercial-type food grinders shall be provided with a waste line at least 2 inches in diameter. (See Appendix F: Illustration D.)
    [
    Section 890.770 Dishwashing Machines

    a) Domestic Dishwasher (Private Residence). When a domestic dishwashing machine drain line is connected to the house side of a trap from a sink, the drain from the dishwasher shall be carried up to the underside of the spill rim of the sink. Dishwashing machines shall discharge separately into a trap or tail piece of the kitchen sink and shall not connect to the food waste disposal unit.



    b) Water Supply Connection. The water supply to commercial dishwashing machines shall be connected through an air gap or by means of proper backflow protection, e.g., a non-pressure type (atmospheric) vacuum breaker or a dual check valve backflow preventer assembly (DuC), depending upon the circumstances.



    c) Commercial dishwashing machines shall indirectly discharge to a proper receptor connected to the drainage system or as permitted in Section 890.1010(a).



    d) Hot Water. A commercial dishwashing machine or similar dishwashing equipment that relies upon hot water for sanitizing dishes and utensils, rather than chemicals for sanitizing, shall provide rinse water at 180 degrees F., except for a single-tank, stationary-rack, single temperature dishwashing machine which shall provide a rinse water temperature of 165 degrees F., in accordance with Section 750.830(h) of the "Food Service Sanitation Code" (77 Ill. Adm. Code 750).

    Now if you have a look at tis picture from the Illinois code book, they show a double wye with two traps and a c.o in the middle. So it is a legal.
    Last edited by SewerRatz; 01-05-2009 at 11:05 AM.

  13. #13
    DIY Member themp's Avatar
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    I am confused. I do have a high loop on the dishwasher connection, this is located in the dishwasher side of the cabinet. I am going to assume the two traps is ok at this point.

    Now to the disposal trap, the bottom of the disposal discharge pipe is 1/4 of inch higher than the bottom of the drain pipe in the wall and the length of this run is about 10 inches. So, the question is, do I need to lower the drain pipe in the wall and why? I do see I have made a larger trap(holds more water) with that extension on the P trap side to the drain in the wall. And this could be prone to clogging.

    Thanks again, Tom

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by themp View Post
    I am confused. I do have a high loop on the dishwasher connection, this is located in the dishwasher side of the cabinet. I am going to assume the two traps is ok at this point.

    Now to the disposal trap, the bottom of the disposal discharge pipe is 1/4 of inch higher than the bottom of the drain pipe in the wall and the length of this run is about 10 inches. So, the question is, do I need to lower the drain pipe in the wall and why? I do see I have made a larger trap(holds more water) with that extension on the P trap side to the drain in the wall. And this could be prone to clogging.

    Thanks again, Tom


    You are all set the way I see it. I would not change anything!

  15. #15
    Illinois Licensed Plumber SewerRatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themp View Post
    I am confused. I do have a high loop on the dishwasher connection, this is located in the dishwasher side of the cabinet. I am going to assume the two traps is ok at this point.

    Now to the disposal trap, the bottom of the disposal discharge pipe is 1/4 of inch higher than the bottom of the drain pipe in the wall and the length of this run is about 10 inches. So, the question is, do I need to lower the drain pipe in the wall and why? I do see I have made a larger trap(holds more water) with that extension on the P trap side to the drain in the wall. And this could be prone to clogging.

    Thanks again, Tom

    Ok we can not see the loop, that is why many where saying it was needed.

    As for the trap if you draw a line from the quarter bend across towards the disposal you will see the water will be sitting in your disposal unit. This is bad. To fix this you need to open the wall and lower the drainage tee, it sounds harder than it really is. I have done many of these when people put in deeper sinks and or upgrade to them new monster sized ISE's


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