Navien tankless

[zl700]

Exactly what is in a Navien Upgrade kit?

[Dana]

Exactly what is in a Navien Upgrade kit?

Some say it's a Noritz, others, Rinnai or Takagi, still others a 75 gallon atmospheric drafted tank with a standing pilot... ;-)

But she doesn't need an upgrade kit nearly as much as an installer with a clue. Anybody willing to send 2 newbies out on a project then tell the customer that gross mis-functioning result is "normal" when it doesn't meet even a casual RTFM-verification test deserves to lose money on the deal. She shouldn't be the one financing their ad hoc education.

[Joeconsumer]

Greetings,
I recently had a Navien LP240A tankless installed by a plumber friend. Relocated home, not living there yet. After work I had to check out my new heater. I went to a sink that was the closest to the unit (approx. 12 feet of Pex) and anxiously turned on the hot water. Within 10 seconds I had very hot water. So hot I turned the temp down from 130 to 120 and left satisfied.
Two days later I checked it again to see what 120 felt like. I waited and waited and finally, hot water came out. It took about 45 seconds to get WARM water. Longer than a minute to get hot water. I invited my plumbers tech guy to come out and take a look. He claimed it runs fine. Plumber friend is coming out tomorrow to see for himself per my request.
I took my infarred thermometer and checked the temps from zero to 1.5 minutes and this is what I logged:

Seconds Temp
10 61
15 66
25 81
30 84
40 83
50 87
60 96
70 103
85 107
90 104

Prior to logging these numbers, the heater had not been operated since the night before. And I did increase the temp to 130. Changing temps is a challenge too. Not very user friendly.
When the heater runs, it seems to fire up and wind down. This is while the water runs wide open. I would have thought the heater would maintain a more constant sound of burning LP. That's why the water temp actually went down a couple times. 84 to 83 and 107 to 104.
So the jury is still out. I know the heater can operate properly due to my satisfaction the first time I used it. Researching on-line lead me to this forum and another forum that discusses simular problems. Apparently more than one person stated they had to have their electronic board replaced. I hope that is all I need to have done. Otherwise there will be a lot of wasted water. If I can not rectify this problem, I will not use this brand or any other brand. I will begin the search for a super insulated water heater.
I will keep you posted on the results.

JC

[zl700]

Chances are your internal circ is not programmed properly on the remote WHICH GAVE YOU THE DELAY

"Changing temps is a challenge too" Oh come on how hard is it to push buttons on the remote?

[Dana]

It's not the button-pushing, it's the RTFM-factor. ;-)

I agree- the recirculation timer on the internal mini-tank was probably not programmed to be cycling for the time of day that you tested it, so heating up the mini-tank induced a delay. See p.20 of the manual on how to set that up.

[Joeconsumer]

Here is where I am at regarding my water temp issues. Prior to my plumber arriving, I had my son attempt to set the units mini tank to 6-9, am and pm. He was unsucessful but did manage to enter a 6 am setting and the unit fired up as though it was heating the tank.
About two hours later, plumber shows up and said he has some dip switch settings he got from the factory rep. Pull panel off and he changes position of one switch. BEFORE that we turned on the hot water and within ten seconds had hot water. I praised both of them for fixing the heater.
Next day it's back to it's old self. No hot water for over 60 seconds. I think it is a matter of getting it programmed properly. Plumber is aware that the unit is not right and tells me he will double check the dip switch settings and program it for the am/pm settings. Isn't that something a plumber should do upon completion of the installation if it's for domestic hot water?

Thanks!

[Dana]

Plumbers don't do software. :-)

But the installer is responsible for setting it up to work properly, and there may be firmware rev control issues at Navien(?). It should be resolvable, but from a consumer point of view you shouldn't have to be the one debugging it- it's between the manufacturer & the installer to sort out.

[zl700]

Getting it to work properly is more than a internal DIP switch, the remote must be programmed

The orange book describes it

[ClicksPlumbing]

I am a certified installer and service tech(not that you'll ever need one) for Navien Tankless water heaters. I have installed many of these units and they have become my preferred tankless brand. In my experience they out perform any of the other units I have installed. Visit my site, Click's Plumbing, for additional information. Remember that alot of people are just scared of what they don't know about.
I realize that this post is old, but it still comes up in organic search, so I decided that I would give my input.
Interested to know if you installed the Navien and what you now think of it.
I am the premier water heater installer of Spring, TX. 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed

To Dana: You just don't have the right plumber.
Programming the remote is a cinch.

To Everyone Else: You need to qualify your plumber!

Hello everyone,

I am considering getting a navien tankless water heater. Originally I decided against tankless because of the maintenance issue but these naviens claim that they don't require any maintenance. My plumber is the one that told me about them. They also can be vented with pvc instead of stainless. Pretty neat. Anybody heard of them or has used them. Thanks

[zl700]

"To Dana: You just don't have the right plumber."

Now that's funny!

(welcome new guy)

[StupFD]

We spent $4,000 putting in a Navien 210A just over a year ago. Everything was great at first; until the weather turned colder. Once we starting getting temperatures near freezing (many of those days in Ontario, Canada) we starting getting water sandwiching during showers. Usually they would start about 2-3 minutes into the shower and they would cycle about 1 minute of nice hot water and then 1 minute of tepid water. It is tempting to bump up the temperature but 1 minute later, you find yourself getting scorched. We called Navien tech support and even though the unit was under the 1 years parts and labour warranty, they would have me the unskilled home owner dismantling the unit and running tests. It would take 40 minutes just to get through, we would try something and they would tell me to try it for a few days. The problem would remain and I would repeat the same tech calls 3 times. Finally we called the installing company and they came out. Since we only have one shower head in our house and it only presents the problem during showers, they blamed it on a faulty shower cartridge.

Here we are a year later out of labour warranty. Temperatures are starting to cool down and about 2 weeks ago, temperature fluctuation starts again. But Wed. night was the beginning of a new chapter. We get 1 minute of tepid water and 1.5 minutes of no hot water. We have been enjoying cold showers since and we are heading into the weekend with no replacement parts available locally. The unit fires but not at full speed therefore, it can not keep up with water demand. Since there are no codes in the computer, they are going to TRY replacing the water flow sensor and if that fails, then the circuit board. At $120 an hour, the "hit and miss" replacement theory does not sit well with us.

BEWARE...Buy a Rinnai!

[jadnashua]

If you want to go tankless (and there are situations where it is a good choice), if you don't start with a good design, proper sizing, and have local, knowledgable techs with parts, you'll probably be sorry. In this case, a tank might have cost $1K to install, and even if it cost $200 more for fuel each year, you'd still have a number of years before you broke even and avoided the hassle, and periodic maintenance, and service outages that are likely.

[Alex Rock]

Korean technology will be leader soon. Navien is not so expansive as Rinnai, but quality is good. They all have got a patented system, where the pump situated before the heat exchanger. Am i right?

[markotah]

What never ceases to amaze me is you read they are either good or a waste of money. Like anything else tankless may not always be the best solution. if you have a new install and no chimney or you have chimney or make up air issues and need a power vented OR power direct vent tank model than hands down tankless is a better option! 12yr + warranty or 6 yrs? Unlimited hot water although a a standard flow rate or a tank that you need time to recover.
The consumer report article is somewhat of a joke for not getting any base line to make the comparison.
As far as warranty look for what is actually covered. If it leaks in 10 yrs do you get a new unit or a heat exchanger that could cost more in labor to install? I have seen these units in some areas of very hard water with few issues. The reason is you are only heating the water on average to 120*. for every ten degrees you go up in temp you get 17 times more minerals out of the water. Most tankless units have a valve kit that makes it easy to clean with vinegar or special cleaners. I don't see many of the cleaners sold and a 5 gal bucket and small pump are only $60. If you can tie your shoes you should be able to handle this yourself.

[Abraham]

I have discussed this with a few local servicemen and I have received varying info.

Some pros have suggested that I go with a unit with a “flow control” feature and others have suggested that I go with a unit with a “thermostatic” feature. And I seem to be receiving varying info regarding what each feature provides.

So I did my homework and referenced both features and fortunately I’ve been able to get what I believe is conclusive info regarding what exactly the “thermostatic” feature provides, (modulates the output gas depending on the varying incoming water temperature in order to ensure an accurate hot water temperature).

But I for the life of me cannot seem to get any info regarding what exactly a “flow control” feature is… and the interesting thing is seemingly every manufacture claims that their units have “flow control”…

So in short my question is what exactly is meant when these manufacturers label their units “flow control” and are my findings correct with respect to the claim of a “thermostatic” feature?