you are doing pretty good....
where do you reside in the USA...???
I am going to send you a private message also...
i sold 22 units in the last 2 months im selling rheem now so let say navien is typical korean company that has great sales department and wont backup anything they say because they hate america and the american people. i told them to pack there shit and move back to korea
A quick and easy D&B business search of Dovels Inc, returns it as one-man shop with maybe a helper
22 units, sure!
Sounds like a new installer to me that screwed it up
Take his input with a huge grain of salt!
I like all the Jap platform units with each one having it's better parts, but keep an eye on Navien, they didnt move to position #2 in North America recently in sales, behind Rinnai for no reason.
Last edited by zl700; 08-26-2009 at 03:47 PM.
im a 4 man shop and 22 units is not that many in 1 month. i own a business how about you. and i agree with most of the people on this forum about navien thats why im selling the reem tankless. wich is good because i also sell rheem heating and airconditioning.the only reason i posted here is so other businesses dont get taken by naviens warranty also most businesses go under for unbillable hours but if you own a business you know that
lol zl100 sounds like a navien rep to me its funny when you tell a company that everbody is bashing them on the internet how defencive they get and navien dose have a good product just shitty customer service and if you are a business owner you know how important customer service is so take that with a grain of salt also
Nope I'm just a specifying and design engineer
Google "Rannai problem, Bosch problem, Noritz problem"
You will get as many or more complaints about them.
It appears all tend to be plagued by application and install problems.
well im just an installer that knows nothing compared to a big eng. like you but the problem is with your tech suport so why dont you put your mind to that problem and tell me how you will fix that. also how can it be a install problem when all you do is hang it on the wall hook up 2 water lines and a gas line plug it in and install a 3 in pvc flue. looks to me that it is over engineered
Can someone confirm to me what you mean by Tankless heaters?
I am assuming you mean instantaneous water heaters.
I fit these all the time, and it is mandatory to fit Condensing water heaters in this country. Often the instantaneous water heaters are central heating boiler combined. We call these boilers combi's for short. Typically they are very efficient.
However, they can only heat so much water by a fixed maximum amount of temperature rise so flow rates will be determined by the cold water main supply and the temperature of the cold water supply. At max demand they pull a lot of gas therefore gas supply pipes need to be adequately sized.
A majority of modern homes in the UK are fitted with a form of instantaneous heating systems. Working with solar as I do and ditting the systems I have I would say if there is only a couple in a small household then Combi is suitable. But large hot water demand storage is better and less gas would be used in a well designed system in my opinion.
A 30kW combi boiler will provide 14 litres/min at 30°C, 12.5 litres/min at 35°C, and 7 litres/min at 55°C rise.
Therefore to get 14 litres at 50c you would need the incoming water to be at 20c.
There is no problem with using these boilers they are generally reliable and having only briefly read through this post the talk about fumes etc seems a bit exaggerated.
Perhaps you might like to read through this article?
Gas, Oil, solar and renewable service and installation in Devon UK- Please note my advice is not based on USA regulations as I am UK resident. Therefore I will try to avoid posting where confusion may be caused or make that clear.
Sorry to hear about your Navien woes, my experience has been that they are usually attributed to insufficient gas and changing water pressures. Its no secret that the 98% is achieved by not using a bypass valve in the unit and thus not flashing the water. Which certainly helps in harder water applications.
Having used the Navien, the buffer tank was needed for the mass required to maintain temp for no delay. You see if it was for temp swings it would have been on the outlet, not the inlet water as it is.
Regarding the rest, while I don't care for all the Paloma's, Rheem and Ruud included, I do like the Takagi, Rinnai, and Noritz. In fact my first tankless over 20 years ago was the CEC (later Bosch) Aquastar 170. While not the most efficient it was endless hot water and before Takagi introduced the water bypass valve to the rest, a thermostatic mixing valve made the old Aquastar work quite well. After about 14 years I replaced it with a Rinnai, even though it still worked.
There is no denying that Noritz makes a quality unit, but perhaps being #4 or 5 in the shippment ranks in the US puts their problems with less exposure. Having visited many tankless install jobsites of all brands, perhaps 5% were actual unit problems and the rest install, application, misunderstanding or abuse.
I believe that the day plumbers carry and use a quality manometer to check change and adjust the tankless units the majority of issues for all will go away.
Last edited by zl700; 09-05-2009 at 05:06 PM.
And now for my quick rant.
It gets old hearing a navien guy tell us how great his product is, I get it at the wholesaler, from the rep, and from the factory. bottom line is, something in the unit isnt right. first it was the flow sensors, then the board (by the way what generation software are we on now, and how many upgrades is that) now we have plastic elbows failing in the unit (factory recomends stocking a few of these on the truck now,) and meanwhile our customers are getting pretty pissed off.
I did NOT have any (take that back 1) problems with the last brand we installed,(over 100 units) so I dont think its me.
Welcome to your first post heetmiser (the original is in Colorado)
"I did NOT have any (take that back 1) problems with the last brand we installed,(over 100 units) so I dont think its me."
Curious, why did you stop installing your last brand and what are you using now and why?