Water Heater Cold Water Inlet "Overflow"

SewerRatz · Dec 28, 2008

Rugged Thanks for the heads up on what that valve is. Like I said its the very first time I ever seen anything like that.In all the years and the 1000's of water heaters I replaced, never never seen that valve. Expansion tanks are required on all water heater installs in Illinois, before they only required it if there was a check valve on the inlet or if there was a backflow preventer at the meter.

Jimbo · Dec 28, 2008

Thanks, Rugged. Never came across that before. Here it is:

http://www.watts.com/pdf/ES-BRV.pdf

We do use a lot of these out here: http://www.watts.com/pdf/es-210-5.pdf

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Rod · Dec 28, 2008

RUGGED said:
WTF is going on in here?!?!?!?!

That's a Watts Thermal expansion Ball Valve Shutoff.

It's dumps water when thermal expansion is present, or is malfunctioning which could easily be the case.

Hard pipe copper out of that tank on the cold side, tee off and install a thermal expansion tank and get rid of that valve, install a normal ball valve.

Then reconnect back to that PEX.

Before you do any of this, check your static water pressure at a hose bibb and determine what the pressure is incoming.

If it is above 60, near 80, you got other problems as well.

An expansion tank will provide protection to as little as 1/2 pound of deflection on the bladder, that cannot be achieved with that valve, which is not good at all for the life and longevity of your plumbing system.

Thank you.

I guess I'm confused as to why I would need a relief valve for thermal expansion on the cold water inlet if that's what the T&P Relief Valve is for...
if I correctly understand the function of the T&P Reief Valve.

The temperature this past week has ranged from high 20s to high 60s.

Please answer these questions-

- If thermal expansion is present... isn't that what the T&P Relief Valve is for?

- The water heater is in my garage. Could I have "overwraped" an already insulated water heater? Could this be the cause of my problem? Or, is there no such thing as over insulating a water heater?

- Can I simply forego the expansion tank and have a plumber install a normal valve?

Thank you for your time.
-Rod

Rod · Dec 28, 2008

Trying to educate myself here:

http://www.co.union.nc.us/Portals/0/PublicWorks/Documents/WaterPressure/Thermal Expansion.pdf

Is my assumption correct in that it is a necessity to have a thermal expansion tank in conjunction with the T&P Relief valve since the expansion tank is designed to release excess pressure under normal water heater operations?

Thank you.
-Rod

SewerRatz · Dec 28, 2008

Rod said:
Thank you.

I guess I'm confused as to why I would need a relief valve for thermal expansion on the cold water inlet if that's what the T&P Relief Valve is for...
if I correctly understand the function of the T&P Reief Valve.

The temperature this past week has ranged from high 20s to high 60s.

Please answer these questions-

- If thermal expansion is present... isn't that what the T&P Relief Valve is for?

- The water heater is in my garage. Could I have "overwraped" an already insulated water heater? Could this be the cause of my problem? Or, is there no such thing as over insulating a water heater?

- Can I simply forego the expansion tank and have a plumber install a normal valve?

Thank you for your time.
-Rod

The T&P valve is there as an emergency relief valve. The expansion tank is there to absorb the thermal expansion to prevent the T&P from tripping. I have had many service calls where people said they noticed water dripping from the tube on the T&P. First thing I check for is any sort of backflow preventer, then water pressure. In most cases the city or village changed out meters and meter yokes and the new yokes had built in double checks. With this change the thermal expansion had no where to go so the T&P valve kept opening up just enough to be a problem.

Rod · Dec 28, 2008

Rod said:
Trying to educate myself here:

http://www.co.union.nc.us/Portals/0/PublicWorks/Documents/WaterPressure/Thermal Expansion.pdf

Is my assumption correct in that it is a necessity to have a thermal expansion tank in conjunction with the T&P Relief valve since the expansion tank is designed to release excess pressure under normal water heater operations?

Thank you.
-Rod

I guess I should really look into North Carolina's plumbing code, heh?

Jar546 · Dec 28, 2008

Are my eyes in need of calibration or does the TPR discharge tube appear to be reduced in size below 3/4".

Where is the pan while we are at it?

Jar546 · Dec 28, 2008

Also,
The first photos show a WH in a finished space. The bottom photo shows the WH on concrete with masonry walls behind it. Did I miss something?

Kingsotall · Dec 28, 2008

jar, I... I...

Rod · Dec 28, 2008

jar546 said:
Are my eyes in need of calibration or does the TPR discharge tube appear to be reduced in size below 3/4".

Where is the pan while we are at it?

Thank you for your input.

I have a book on-hand- Taunton's For Pros By Pros seires, "Inspecting A House", by Rex Cauldwell. It states on pg 158-

"If the T&P valve does ever kick off, you don't want it to drip or spray scalding water all over the tank or in anyone's face. Therefore the valve needs to have a pipe extending from the T&P female threads down to a few inches above the floor. This pipe must not be reduced in size from the female thread size in the valve, which is normally 3/4". Almost any pipe will do-even plastic CPVC- but the pipe cannot be threaded on its bottom end."

I looked at the discharge tube pipe. It reads, "CPVC 4120", "100 PSI at 180F".

There is no pan. I don't know yet if NC code requires one.

Thank you.
-Rod

Rod · Dec 28, 2008

jar546 said:
Also,
The first photos show a WH in a finished space. The bottom photo shows the WH on concrete with masonry walls behind it. Did I miss something?

The WH is in my garage. The garage walls are finished.

Thank you.
-Rod

Rod · Dec 28, 2008

Rod said:
Thank you for your input.

I have a book on-hand- Taunton's For Pros By Pros seires, "Inspecting A House", by Rex Cauldwell. It states on pg 158-

I looked at the discharge tube pipe. It reads, "CPVC 4120", "100 PSI at 180F".

There is no pan. I don't know yet if NC code requires one.

Thank you.
-Rod

This is also on the CPVC discharge tube:

FlowGuard Gold

D2846

Jar546 · Dec 28, 2008

Great information but we need to know the size of the discharge tube. Just make sure it is at lease 3/4".

You have 2 hot water heaters in the photos, one of them is in the garage?

Rod · Dec 28, 2008

jar546 said:
Great information but we need to know the size of the discharge tube. Just make sure it is at lease 3/4".

You have 2 hot water heaters in the photos, one of them is in the garage?

All of the photos are of the same WH- in the garage. It is the only WH I have.

What's an accurate method to measure it? I thought it would be plainly written on the CPVC pipe.

Also, are you able to answer these?

- The water heater is in my garage. Could I have "overwraped" an already insulated water heater? Could this be the cause of my problem? Or, is there no such thing as over insulating a water heater?

- Can I simply forego the expansion tank and have a plumber install a normal valve?

Thank you.
-Rod

Rod · Dec 28, 2008

I want to thank everyone for their advice. I spoke in-debth with MACPLUMB 777 about the need for attaching a thermal expansion tank.

Again, thank you kindly for your time and advice.
-Rod

Jimbo · Dec 28, 2008

Sounds like you have it all worked out....but just in case: The T/P is a safety to prevent a catastrophic event if the Pressure exceeds the design max limit of the WH ( 150 PSI). But we do not want the house piping to regularly see pressures less than 150, but far exceeding the normal max limit of 80 PSI. That situation is caused by thermal expansion, and is accomodated by a thermal expansion tank, or your thermal relief valve.

Kingsotall · Dec 28, 2008

I think "jar" still needs closure as to why the posted photos seem to negate each other.

Probedude · Dec 28, 2008

edit; nevermind.

Water Heater Cold Water Inlet "Overflow"

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