1.6 gallon flush to become illegal?

i just had my first toto drake installed after specifying CST744S with 1.6 GPF and G max. my plumber installed instead the toto drake ST732E, with 1.28 GPF and E max, without consulting me. asking my plumber why this happened led to calling toto who told me that the 1.6 GPF toilets were being phased out 1/09 due to federal legislation mandating 1.28 GPF. Is this true? So effective very soon i cannot even buy a 1.6 GPF toilet? If i have the 1.6 GPF G max installed anyway, will i be able to get parts for it for repairs should it fail? Will Terry have to revise his list of best toilets, since most seem to be 1.6 GPF toilets, and if so, when? I need to make a decision about this soon and now don't know for sure what to do. my main goal in replacing my old toilet was to bypass clogging, but i quickly learned that this ecodrake clogs and furthermore the drain outlet does not allow a tight enough seal to effectively plunge it. advice, please.....

I am not sure about federal. But in California, beginning I think in 2009, there will be a phase in of so-called HET ( high efficeiency toilets, 1.28 gpf). Each year for several years, a certain percentage of a manufacturer's total production will need to be 1.28. The percentage will increase each year for about 5 years, until 100% HET will be the law. I think your plumber or distributor may be misinterpreting the situation.

Most all HET now are dual flushers. To achieve the 1.28 AVERAGE gpf, the law specifies a certain ratio of pee to poop! A number 2 flush can still be 1.6 gallons, and a number 1 flush will be probably under 1 gallon. The average works out to the 1.28 number.

WaterSense Toilets for the Seattle Area

I hate to see the day where they say we can no longer use water, the waste must be incinerated, and shoveled out weekly.

But a note on these water water saving water closets, they need to have the toilet paper makers stopping making their product so strong and tough. They need to go back to the type that dissolves as it hits the water. I been seeing more and more blocked sewers due to to much TP in the line.

I have not heard anything about this from Toto.
I know we get a better rebate from our city programs for installing 1.28 over 1.6.
The Drake ST743E is the same exact tank as the ST743S except they have a float above the flapper to close it quicker.
If you do not like the 1.28 whcih flushes great (give it a chance) you can remove the float and change it back to a 1.6.
All you have to do is remove the chain from the trip lever and then remove the white disc above the float, then remove the float and re-connect the chain to the trip lever.

I am going to guess that we will some day be back to out houses...no water use...and it will put all the drain cleaning companys out of buisness...

illegal toilets

i really appreciate the advice i've gotten here, thank you. it sounds like i got the wrong info from my other resources. i'm going to call toto back and speak with someone else to clarify. in the meantime i've checked the MaP flush ratings on the drake ST743E ("ecodrake") and the drake CST744S: 500 vs 900, respectively. sounds like a significant difference to me.

Re: removing the float to convert 1.28 to 1.6 GPF: is that float the only difference between G max and E max technology?

I have two Eco flush Toto toilets in my home at the moment.
I can't tell much difference.

If you want to use more water, just hold the handle a bit longer. That will drop 2.5 gallons that way. Everything will just fly out of there.

But you really only need a MaP of 500, anything more is really overkill.
The Toto Ultimate was MaP'd at 325 and works very well.

WaterSense Toilets for the Seattle Area

Peanut9199 said:

If you do not like the 1.28 whcih flushes great (give it a chance) you can remove the float and change it back to a 1.6.
All you have to do is remove the chain from the trip lever and then remove the white disc above the float, then remove the float and re-connect the chain to the trip lever.

Click to expand...

I don't get it. The float keeps the flapper open until the water level in the tank drops to a certain level. If removed, why would the flapper stay open longer?

It's confusing because it's called a float when it is really a weight, but they couldn't put a weight because it would never allow the flapper to rise in the first place so it is light enough to open but heavy enough to weigh down the flapper.
When the water is leaving the tank the float actually pushes the flapper closed sooner than the normal 1.6 gpf leaves the tank, other companies used to and still do use a piece of foam on the chain.

susanoc said:

Re: removing the float to convert 1.28 to 1.6 GPF: is that float the only difference between G max and E max technology?

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The fill valve is different as well as the flush valve and flapper. If you swap just the flapper, you will probably use more than 1.6 GPF. Give the 1.28 GPF a try for a while to see how you like it. We have had one of the 1.28 GPF Drakes for about a year now and don't have any complaints. One of the nice things about it is that since it uses less water, the tank fills quicker and makes noise for a shorter period of time.

California is the first state to mandate HETs & HEUs but the Feds won't be far behind.

According to the PHCC:

"Changes have recently been made to legislation in California that would mandate the use of High Efficiency Toilets (HETs) and High Efficiency Urinals (HEUs). The legislation would phase in HETs beginning in 2010 and would require all water closets to maintain flush volumes of 1.28 (gpf) by 2014."

Complete article at Source

As a Kaleefornian, I don't quite get the rational for HET fixtures. Last month my water bill was $40 (roughly) and of that only $4 was for the cost of the water.....the rest was/is connection fees and sewage fees. I replaced three 3.6gpf toilets with 1.6 units this year and an older top load washer with a front load HE machine. No complaints, and my average gallon per day useage has decreased, but there really isn't any market/cost incentive to use less water (yet). Cost aside, any water I'm saving is more than used up by my moron neighbor who waters his landscape rain or shine daily with two broken sprinkler heads in the system that send geysers over the top of his house Yeh, I've pointed this out to him but he doesn't seem to care as it doesn't cost him that much more to be an idiot.

Mort

Mort said:

As a Kaleefornian, I don't quite get the rational for HET fixtures.

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It's a cumulative thing. We all know you personally aren't using up all the water in California.


Dave
(also in Calif)

Cass said:

I am going to guess that we will some day be back to out houses...no water use...and it will put all the drain cleaning companys out of buisness...

Click to expand...

Could be!


Just think about that for a minute; water will be abundant, along with taking showers where you get wet, shut the water off, suds up, then rinse off.


NOT the setups today where the consumer installs practically car washes inside their home with 13gpm shower heads and 45 body sprays. Don't forget 5 tankless water heaters in the basement and a 10 thousand dollar water filtration system.


Yes, there are people like this, I've met them and I've worked for them. And don't dare criticize their home! You'll never work for them again!


I did just that up in Symmes Township with a federal prosecutor, he was rehabbing this house he bought and just dumping tens of thousands of dollars into this home and to be quite honest,


it was a waste of money, truly it was. Older home, small rooms, ceilings were standard 8' which in today's standards, closed quarters. He had too many bells and whistles and the house was just too mug, and that was before all the fixings and trimmings were in this place. Sheesh!

Anyway, I took a small potshot at his water filtration system when him and I discussed its value.

I explained to him that "See those contractors out in the road right now?" explaining that they was working on the water mains, and explained that not having a prefilter on that system and letting that water go into those $240 a piece filters is going to hurt when those guys get dirt infiltration in the lines.

This guy had the filters down to a science when he'll have to replace them given the time and gallon variable, and I told him it was not realistic when city water mains, especially ohio's water system is constantly being worked on.


I also picked on his pegasus tub and shower faucets that he had his parts scattered through 3 rooms. Got one together but the one in the shower only room was roughed in too deep.

Told him he wouldn't find parts for it years from now. Another reason to hate me for my honesty.


Both toilets in this completely remodeled home? the closet flanges were installed incorrectly; new brass closet flanges to 3" copper drains. Dude, there's only so many things you can blame on the wife, this one wasn't going to fly.

I wouldn't worry too much. You will always be able to find a toilet w/ a very high tank that has a fill tube that is extremely short. All one has to do is replace the flush valve upon purchase and put in one that has a very tall fill tube. You can double the volume of some toilets very easily this way. Of course this is probably not the most legal route, I doubt any inspector will notice when you are trying to sell your place.