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Thread: Crane Toilet-To-Go Flush Valve/Ball/Bell

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  1. #1

    Default Crane Toilet-To-Go Flush Valve/Ball/Bell

    Greetings

    I've got a Crane Toilet-To-Go (about a year old). This toilet has a very odd flush valve. It's a bell shaped contraption, where the bell is the flapper/valve and the top of the bell is the overflow. The bell is attached, with a plastic anchor, to the tank/bowl valve seat.

    The valve seat is raised, with no external anchor for a replacement valve/flapper like a normal toilet.

    My problem is that the fill/float assembly was worthless. You couldn't fine tune it enough to hit the fill mark yet not overflow into the bell. The tank is a 1.6G so you have to get right at the fill mark otherwise nothing flushes. I've replaced it with a pressure related fill valve, however I'm still having problems hitting the mark.

    I'd like to replace the valve, but I'll need to replace the entire valve and valve seat. I'm not sure which "universal valve and valve seat" parts will fit this toilet. Any ideas?

    Installation instructions
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Terry; 12-25-2008 at 08:40 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default toilet

    They say "only one piece to change and it can be changed from the top", but cannot find a picture. In most cases, with a two piece toilet like this, it can be changed to a conventional fill valve and Douglas flush valve.

  3. #3
    DIY Senior Member Probedude's Avatar
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    The x-ray view in the manual, the flapper valve/overflow tube looks 'normal'.

    Sure looks like you could replace it with a universal but I'm a bit confused by your problem. You said it was a fill valve problem but you want to replace the ballcock setup?

  4. #4
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default ?

    The fill valve IS the ballcock, but he appears to have a flush valve problem of some kind if the tank will not fill.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Probedude View Post
    The x-ray view in the manual, the flapper valve/overflow tube looks 'normal'.

    Sure looks like you could replace it with a universal but I'm a bit confused by your problem. You said it was a fill valve problem but you want to replace the ballcock setup?

    Thanks for the reply.

    The picture of the attached setup guide does not represent the "innards" of my particular toilet. Perhaps they switched back.

    Initially, we had a fill valve problem where the fill valve would continue to run...stop...run...stop...run. I removed it and replaced it with one driven by pressure. That part is OK, however the overflow tube/flapper (one unit, not like the conventional Douglas flapper) makes it difficult to adjust and sometimes the "bell" flapper gets caught and won't close due to design.

    In the pictures below: Pic 1 shows the pressure driven fill valve and to the right the "bell flapper". Pic 2 shows the "bell flapper" raised (all water evacuated) and you can see the plastic "anchor" on the bottom of the "bell flapper" attaching it to the valve seat.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Triton46; 12-27-2008 at 07:13 PM.

  6. #6
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default tank

    That fill valve should only be used for horse water tanks so they do not have a float rod to play with. They are useless as a toilet fill valve, if for no other reason than there is no way to manually shut them off if they start to overfill the tank. The flush valve can be replaced with a generic flapper unit since it uses the same size hole in the tank.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    That fill valve should only be used for horse water tanks so they do not have a float rod to play with. They are useless as a toilet fill valve, if for no other reason than there is no way to manually shut them off if they start to overfill the tank. The flush valve can be replaced with a generic flapper unit since it uses the same size hole in the tank.
    I've had this particular fill valve in two toilets in the house for two years. I do see your point though. My problem with the old float style fill valve was that it continued to run....stop...run...stop. It kept me up at night, it was as if the toilet was leaking (which I confirmed it was not by shutting off the water and not using it for a week).

    Is there a particular flush valve I can use to replace this one? I've looked through a few different stores and can find none that are compatible.

  8. #8

    Default lbish

    triton46
    same problem here. Can't find this contraption anywhere! The bell has embossed "Certain Flush 3, Coast Foundry and Manufacturing Company" along with the patent # & information. My toilet is an '04. I can't even find a substitution with a 4" seat & plunger.

  9. #9

    Default Crane Toilet replacement parts

    I have a Crane SureFlush toilet purchased at a major home center in early 2007.
    the toilet uses almost identical mechanical systems as the All-in-one
    The Fill Valve has a fixed tube that would run over and into the bell shaped flapper

    has anyone been able to find replacement parts? Since this company was taken over by American Standard, it seems like they have vacated major Home Centers!

  10. #10
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    I would consider this to be a lesson in shopping at the lower end of the price spectrum.

    I would suggest trying the opposite and find sure satisfaction.

    Toto Toilets

  11. #11

    Default Warranty

    I also purchased a Crane Sure Flush toilet in late 2007. As I was then out of state on a work assignment for 18 months, I just recently found out how much trouble the fill valve on this toilet could be.

    As I still had the paperwork from the toilet, I noted that it had a 10 year warrenty on all parts. After calling the customer service telephone number (419-522-4211) and getting redirected to a couple different American Standard folks, they offered to send me a replacement fill valve. (Note warranty states that you need to have proof of original purchase date, though I wasn't even asked for that).

    While it took 2+ weeks to arrive, they sent me both a replacement fill valve and flush valve, both of which I have just finished installing... and so far they work.

    These replacement parts are nothing like the originals, with the flush valve having a more traditional flapper. They were manufactured by WDI, inc.

    Packing list from Crane/American Standard reads:
    Material # P030174000; Description: FILL VALVE - WDI B3834W-A-CRN2
    Material # P030236000; Description: Flush Valve With 279 Flapper
    Material # P030482100; Description: Tank Parts Bag WDI B839-G-CRN3

    Hope this helps someone else.

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member Leo C.'s Avatar
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    I had the same problem. Found out that Crane was bought out by American Standard. They have a better valve that fits!! Its a regular style valve but fits the 3 1/2" opening on the tank. Its part no. 738921-104.0070A (flush valve assy1.28GPF) You will also need the tank to bowl gasket, also American Standard. Part no. 7301021-0070A tank to bowl coupling kit #253. I bought mine from an outfit called Teters Faucet Supply in Dallas TX. (214)823-2153.....cost me about $35.00 for both parts. Hope this helps.

  13. #13
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    I should mention that Korky was nice enough to send me their new 5030BP Universal 3" flush valve to evaluate. It comes with various parts to make it universal for everything that has a 3" flush hole except Kohler toilets. It's big, so it comes in a nice cardboard box and includes a Korky 3" adjustable flapper. The quality of the molding and hardware is what you would expect from Korky -- very fine quality. It has an adjustable-height overflow riser that is twist-to-lock, so you don't need to saw it to the right height, and the overflow riser is oversized, so it should actually prevent an overflow in the event that you have a runaway fill valve.

    It also comes with appropriate tank-to-bowl gaskets in the box.

    As usual with Korky, the instructions are in clear, plain English, with enough detail to make sense, but stated simply so really anyone can tackle the job.

    The opening on that Crane tank looks more like 3" on the internal dimension, so I imagine that the 5030BP would fit, although one can always call 1-800-LAVELLE and the nice Korky people would tell you.



    Regarding the original post years ago, to which HJ pointed out that those "pressure" toilet fill valves aren't accurate enough to use in a toilet, I would also note that they probably don't meet code because they are fully-submerged in the tank water and thus the tank water is by necessity above the critical level on the valve; moreover, they likely do not have an effective anti-siphon capability. Yuck.
    Last edited by Terry; 03-12-2013 at 06:25 PM.

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