Recessed Lighting Help Needed

[homerlanefarms]

Hi: We are getting ready to build and I have heard so many pro's and con's about different brands of recessed lighting? Does someone want to suggest a good brand to use that won't bankrupt me. We want to use 4" line voltage IC can. What are the advantages of useing low voltage vs. high voltage. Any help you give we will be much appreciated.

[jimbo]

If you stay with a mainline brand like Halo, you will always be able to find replacement trims, and you will have a wider selection of trims to choose from. Your local electrical supply house may have another brand that they stock. Stay away from the home stores.


Where are you using this? Many municipal codes do not allow recessed lighting at the main light source in kitchens or bathrooms. It is quite INEFFICIENT in terms of providing general area illumination. It is really meant for accent and mood lighting.

Low voltage mainly allows you to use smaller cans that use the MR16 bulbs. The bulbs are expensive, and the transformer will occasionally have to be replaced.

Consider using fixtures which are set up for the plug-in compact fluorescent bulbs.'

[Speedy Petey]

Does someone want to suggest a good brand to use that won't bankrupt me. We want to use 4" line voltage IC can.

This is an oxymoron. 4" low voltage cans are EXPENSIVE! If you are on a tight budget do not even think about using them.
They are about five times more than "standard" 5" or 6" line voltage cans and trims.
They are also NOT the correct choice for general lighting. Why are you considering them?

Where are you using this? Many municipal codes do not allow recessed lighting at the main light source in kitchens or bathrooms. It is quite INEFFICIENT in terms of providing general area illumination. It is really meant for accent and mood lighting.

Sorry Jimbo, I have to disagree. A lot of recessed lighting can be a very nice source of general light if done right. Only thing is IMO using MR16's is NOT doing it right.

Don't forget, you are in the People's Republic of California. You have some of the strictest rules of any place in the country, and I hope it does not spread. Although NY does unfortunately follow suit with many of CA's stupid laws, rules and codes.

I am all for using energy saving methods, I just do NOT want to be forced into using something, like CFL recessed cans, that may be obsolete in a few years and do not give any flexibility. I mean, there is not even a "standard" socket for them yet.
If Ca wants to phase out incan lamps they should simply tax the sh*t out of them and subsidize CFLs. The average person is not about to go over state lines to bootleg 100W/A lamps.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Nice Signature SP.


Get enough people out there doing this and it will put a hurt in their clientell base.


I'm stuck where I can't reload another card right now and faced with paying the balance down the hard way.

[jar546]

If cost is a factor then stick with 6" cans.

Budget wise, I use Progress Lighting cans which has a lot of trim options.
Halo is another choice and the big box stores(which I hate) seem to sell them too.

There are some nice LED can lighting options which may be more expensive but will save you money in the long run due to energy savings and the fact that they last a very long, long, long time. Much longer than CFLs and more efficient.

Progress does not have an LED setup that I am aware of.

[homerlanefarms]

If you stay with a mainline brand like Halo, you will always be able to find replacement trims, and you will have a wider selection of trims to choose from. Your local electrical supply house may have another brand that they stock. Stay away from the home stores.


Where are you using this? Many municipal codes do not allow recessed lighting at the main light source in kitchens or bathrooms. It is quite INEFFICIENT in terms of providing general area illumination. It is really meant for accent and mood lighting.

Low voltage mainly allows you to use smaller cans that use the MR16 bulbs. The bulbs are expensive, and the transformer will occasionally have to be replaced.

Consider using fixtures which are set up for the plug-in compact fluorescent bulbs.'

WE are planning on using these in the kitchen and living areas and they will be the main source of lighting.

[homerlanefarms]

If cost is a factor then stick with 6" cans.

Budget wise, I use Progress Lighting cans which has a lot of trim options.
Halo is another choice and the big box stores(which I hate) seem to sell them too.

There are some nice LED can lighting options which may be more expensive but will save you money in the long run due to energy savings and the fact that they last a very long, long, long time. Much longer than CFLs and more efficient.

Progress does not have an LED setup that I am aware of.

You mention other options? Like what? I'm interested.

To answer some of the otherquestions...building is in Pennsylvania

Why 4" recessed? My architect thinks they look better. I might say, my son is the Architect...lives in NYC.

[220/221]

This is an oxymoron. 4" low voltage cans are EXPENSIVE

We want to use 4" line voltage IC can

We use Halo brand although the crap seems to be getting crappier and more flimsy every year. And, I HATE the spring style trim retention method because they don't provide a good place to attach the spring.

A 5 or 6 inch can will spread twice the light of a 4 inch model. I avoid 4 inch cans for general lighting.

In the kitchen, place them directly over the counter/work space about 18 to20 inches off the wall. Do not encroach on your upper cabinet crown moulding.

Also, keep them away from ceiling fans.

My architect thinks they look better

Yes....the old form vs function debate.

I generally use a combination of 4" and 6" cans in my house. 6" cans do look like hell if you look straight up in them as you can see the interior of the can. 5" cans minimize this.

[Speedy Petey]

Why 4" recessed? My architect thinks they look better. I might say, my son is the Architect...lives in NYC.

This explains a LOT. I deal with the same thing ALL the time.
They just don't get it. Is he more concerned with how they look on the ceiling or how well they will light?????

Please don't get me started on architects.

[cattledog]

Last year, I completed a complete electrical remodel where we used six inch Halo cans for general lighting. These were the choice of the electrician who overall did high quality work. We used white trim on a white ceiling. Whether or not you can live with he aesthetics of the 6" cans and trim is a decision you will have to make.

There is an energy efficiency downside of all the ceiling penetrations but there is some additional sealing you can do with an IC can, and I think that there may be some totally sealed cans (more expensive) available.

I chose to use non dimmable, standard A base BR30 CFL floodlights everywhere. They have an internal starter/ballast and do not require anything special in the can. After trying may brands of lamps in an single can before purchasing for the whole house, I selected the Home Depot brand N:vision soft white(2700K) 14w (65 watt equivalent) BR30. They are rebranded TCP 2R3014's. TCP is one of the top tier manufacturers. In my opinion these bulbs were the best choice overall with regard to color, cost, and rapid turn on time. I found that across bands, the same advertised color temperature could have different appearance and color rendition.

I have lost one lamp out of 65 with an early failure, after about one year. Who knows if the advertised five to seven year lifetimes will be achieved.

You will have to decide if the energy savings and environmental benefits of CFL's are worth the main performance drawback which is the non-instantaneous ramp up to full brightness. Actually, in a bathroom in the middle of the night it is a advantage ;-) There is an "instabrite" version of the lamp available from TCP but they are twice the cost of the standard. I have used a few in closets. I have no experience with the dimmable version of CFL's. Spring lamp CFL's do not work well in recessed lighting.

Whether or not to go with CFL's now or wait for affordable LED's is another call you will have to make. In my opinion, significant market pentration of the LED's was quite a way off, and I chose to take the benefits and drawbacks of CFL's now.

[jar546]

Here are some trim options from Progress:
http://progresslighting.com/products.aspx?Category=70

Also, I have come across problems when out of state architects do drawings for people. I know he is your son so I will be gentle.

PA is an ICC code state and right now the IRC 2006 must be complied with. NY takes the IRC and changes it so what he knows about the IRC in NY may not be apply in PA.

What part of PA will the home be in?

[jwelectric]

What part of PA will the home be in?

I bet it is not Lancaster County, PA

[Chris75]

Okay, heres my 2 cents on the subject...

6" cans are ridiculous, they look like a meteor came through the ceiling, You can use 5" cans with the same wattage lamp... 4" cans are not a good idea for general lighting, you'll need too many to accomplish the same thing that 5" cans spaced properly can do, 4" Low voltage cans are out of most peoples budget.

I like brands like Juno, & Lightolier, I dislike Halo, the trims turn yellow after a while.

I wont discuss that your sons an architect.


Here is a pic of 5" cans spaced correctly in my kids playroom in the basement.


Click to enlarge, I could not get the last two lights in the pic, but you get the idea.

[homerlanefarms]

Here are some trim options from Progress:
http://progresslighting.com/products.aspx?Category=70

Also, I have come across problems when out of state architects do drawings for people. I know he is your son so I will be gentle.

PA is an ICC code state and right now the IRC 2006 must be complied with. NY takes the IRC and changes it so what he knows about the IRC in NY may not be apply in PA.

What part of PA will the home be in?

Western Pennsylvania...north of pittsburgh

[jimbo]

Some of you may be in for a surprise. California, also Oregon and Washington, 2 years ago implemented EPACT ( Federal Energy Policy Act of 2005). That limited the wattage available on R bulbs, forcing a shift to more expensive PAR. Also limited A bulb wattage, and completely eliminagted incandescent floods over 100 watts for most situations. WELL, girls and boys, that act is in effect NATIONAL as of Jan. 1, 2009. You will be in for some shockers!