Installing new water pipes

**Lori1851** · 06-12-2005, 08:10 PM

Hello,
We are looking into having all new water pipes installed under the house. My question is we have had 3 different plumbers tell us something different.
The last one said he recommends a new type of PVC pipe that can expand. So what is the best copper or pvc?
We live in Indiana and we do have cold winters.

We had a new well installed 3 yrs ago adn up until 8 months ago we had all kinds of water pressure. We had alot of things checked and they still say the pipes under the house are too small. Could there be any other thing that can cause us to lose water pressure?
I am talking in the whole house. Our house is around 50 yrs old.

Thanks in advance,
Lori

hj · 06-12-2005, 08:22 PM

If he is calling it PVC and means PEX, then get a different plumber, one who knows what he is talking about. If you had good pressure until 8 months ago, then the pipes are not too small, but depending on their material they could be plugged up, although 8 months is a short time for that to happen. Find a plumber that can determine the exact reason for your problem and then see if the solution is repiping the system.

**master plumber mark** · 06-12-2005, 09:26 PM

so you live in Indiana??? where at??

I wonder what prices and types of pipe you have been offered
for this job???
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Personally , I prefer the old fashioned copper pipe type
L because it simply looks better and will last you probably 45 +years

but of course it will freeze up in the winter

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their is a yellow or off white type flow-guard cpvc pipe that works pretty well and you see it everywhere.
It just glues together and is easy to use for the beginner
It is brittle and will freeze up too

It is ok stuff , but not all that durable --trailer park material.

not my choice.
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their is pex WIRSBO out there whhich I have used on occasion
it works very well , especially in situations where you might have an
un heated crawl space area that might freeze up it will almost never break...

we have used a combination of wirsbo and copper on occasion...

the only real downside to wirsbo is it looks real sloppy to both the trained and untrained eye. I honestly dont think you can make the stuff look good.

We have had to go back and attempt to straighten out the stuff
for the more pickey customers... so if this is where you see it all the
time keep that in mind.

they dont know how long the stuff will last either...maybe 50-100 years..

its good and ok.
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some of my past employees are in love with Wirsbo,
and many people are useing it all over Indianapolis ....

but I still like type L copper

please let me know what prices you received from the plumbers in
your area.

**Taylor** · 06-20-2005, 03:53 AM

MP Mark,

Since you've mentioned Type L a couple of times, what do you think of Type M, which is all that plumbers install in residential around here?

I have walls and floor open for bathroom remodel now and am debating upgrading 20-yo Type M to Type L while I have the chance. Planning to live in this house till I croak....

**master plumber mark** · 06-20-2005, 06:01 AM

Type M is ok and will last you about 35 +years

its all that is mostly used around here

we have never had a problem with it

Type L is more for commercial situations but the price
difference is nominal.....

as of this morning MY COST per foot

3/4 type m cost 95c per foot 3/4 type 1. 28. L

33 cents more x 200 feet isnt even 70 dollars...

So I would go with the L

you probably throw 5 times
that much away on lottery tickets every year

**Taylor** · 06-20-2005, 06:26 AM

Thanks. Yeah the $$$ are too small to be an issue. I do wish plumbers would offer customers Type L as an option, most customers are probably as clueless as I am....

**Taylor** · 06-20-2005, 06:55 AM

As a follow-up question, is there anything wrong with using the copper fittings typically carried by Homer et al? Some of my older copper pipes have bronze (?) fittings that seem thicker. Are they any harder to solder?

**master plumber mark** · 06-20-2005, 04:33 PM

copper fittings are all basically like a L type....

never seen anything lighter that is even sold out there.

the fittings are certanly heavier than M

if you got bronze fittings , those are from back in the 50--60s

and you dont see a lot of that anymore....

I got a few buckets full of them somewhere
( if my employees havent stolen them and sold them off for weight)

not really any harder to solder... a lot heavier guage ...

jsut sand the heck out of them and use tinning flux.

**Gary Swart** · 06-20-2005, 05:46 PM

It is my understanding that copper fittings are universal. No difference in L and M. Your old fittings are from a different era, but should certainly work OK.

**Taylor** · 06-20-2005, 07:17 PM

Thanks, I think these "bronze" fittings are from an 80s remodel of the kitchen, unless these copper supply pipes are older than I thought and predate that remodel. I know Homer has bronze fittings, perhaps they are only compression fittings. The bronze fittings on my copper pipes are a mix of soldered and compression.

Practiced soldering Type L today, think I have it now.

Showtime.

**master plumber mark** · 06-20-2005, 07:21 PM

show time ??

If you are doing this yourself get some OATEY TINNING FLUX

preferrably NOT the water soluable type. But it works ok too.

its the best way to go........I use it all the time, its like cheating

on a test because it tins the pipe for you and only if you dont put

enough solder on the fitting are you gonna fail....

just slop the flux on the pipe and inside the fitting too,
do be skimpy here.....

you will see the pipe turn silver when
you heat it up and the rest is history...

**chipshot** · 06-20-2005, 07:24 PM

Can you explain how the Oatey tinning flux is differant and why you said it's like cheating? Are there any drawbacks to it?

**Gary Slusser** · 06-20-2005, 07:26 PM

The compression stuff is usually brass.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

**master plumber mark** · 06-23-2005, 05:07 PM

The tinning flux gives you an extra edje is all I meant...

you can use the striaght clear stuff if you have someting to prove,

but all I want to do is not have any leaks what-so ever.....

they cost me money and so I guess I "cheat a little" and use the

pre-mixed stuff...

its grey and has basically solder mixed into it to help tin the joint for

both the beginners and the pros....

it makes your soldering experience more pleasent,

successful, less stressful ect.....