High Iron and smell- Should I buy this house? Help please

[drick]

Why wouldn't one of those green sand iron filters work.

They only work to 15ppm iron max. Even if this was not a problem his PH is out of range and would have to be neutralized first. And green sand requires KMNO4 (potassium permanganate - somewhat hazardous) along with a couple hundred gallons of water in order to regenerate.

Then again the system that's there probably just needs maintenance.

Maybe. I'd be more optimistic if it had a retention tank. That doesn't mean he can't use what is there as part of a new setup though.

-rick

[Gary Slusser]

I was under the impression that Centaur is a type of carbon.

It is. I think you are assuming that iron or rust will get to it but you're forgetting the mixing tank. It keeps the ferric iron/rust in the tank.

Anyway, that is what I have and alone it did not remove all the iron.

I would have told you that instead of selling you something that wouldn't work. OPW does that frequently.

I figured the 1.5cuft filter just couldn't handle 12ppm of iron so I added the 1 cuft filox filter in front of it. It is safe to say from the backwash that the filox filter is removing 95% of the iron at the moment.

My system will remove 100% of it. And as time goes by your Filox probably will allow more and more iron through it.

Service rate is rated at 6 gpm/cuft.

Which is good for like a 1.5 bath house with 2 people in it, a larger number of people and more standard bathrooms and it's too small. A big tub or shower and it's way too small for just 2 people. OPW doesn't get into that, I do.

As I understand it Filox is a relatively new filter medium. Sorry for the thread hijack yoxman13.
-rick

Yes it is, but IMO it isn't as good as Pyrolox but I won't sell either. That's after selling many filters using Pyrolox in the 1990s.

Yoxman and others can learn a lot from this discussion so I don't see any hijacking.

[Gary Slusser]

There is a twin tank type softener there now. The house has sat empty for over two years. It was an elderly couple and it appears the softener wasn't maintained and it is bypassed. The house was built in 1996 IIRC and I'd suspect the softener was bought then. So it would need new resin in both tanks at least and if it's a Fleck control, maybe new seals spacers and a piston and brine valve probably.

[drick]

I would have told you that instead of selling you something that wouldn't work. OPW does that frequently.

I don't see how the system you are recommending here is much different than mine was before I added the filox filter: chlorinate-->retention tank --> centaur. I started at 12ppm iron and still had 4-5ppm after the centaur filter. Are you using the water softener to remove the remainder of the iron? BTW the system was not purchased from OPW. I just like their website

And as time goes by your Filox probably will allow more and more iron through it.

Maybe, but at the moment this is speculation probably based on your experience with Pyrolox and on the assumption the filox will not fully backwash. I am using a vortex tank hoping this will help, and you may turn out to be correct, but so far I notice no degradation of the filox filter's ability to remove iron.

Which is good for like a 1.5 bath house with 2 people in it, a larger number of people and more standard bathrooms and it's too small. A big tub or shower and it's way too small for just 2 people. OPW doesn't get into that, I do.

I agree with your sizing, but I don't think you could have helped me. In my case the problem here is my well pump only delivers 9gpm and almost all backwashing filters require a higher backwash rate than service rate so I'm sort of stuck unless I upsize my well pump (risky), store and repump, or run parallel filters.
-rick

[gmrules]

Was a great and interesting read But I still do not know if he should or should not buy the house??

[speedbump]

Was a great and interesting read But I still do not know if he should or should not buy the house??

With all the experience I have had with high iron content, I wouldn't buy the place. It's a never ending maintenance problem. There is no equipment out there that the head and the nozzle venturi (if using KMNO2) won't plug up in a short time. I don't know of any way to clean out a backwashing head once plugged with iron, so look for a large expense down the road.

Anyone who tells you their equipment will last for 7 to 10 years with 12 parts of iron is just blowing smoke.

bob...

[yoxman13]

Thank you everyone for your replys. I have decided to cancel the contract on the house and get my deposit money back. From everything that I learned, with iron at 16ppm and a smell this bad, it is going to require more effort to keep this water clean than I am willing to do for this house. I have learned a great deal from this thead and will be ready to put in a system when I buy a house, which hopefully will have water that is a little easier to mangage.

[Gary Slusser]

I don't see how the system you are recommending here is much different than mine was before I added the filox filter: chlorinate-->retention tank --> centaur. I started at 12ppm iron and still had 4-5ppm after the centaur filter. Are you using the water softener to remove the remainder of the iron? BTW the system was not purchased from OPW. I just like their website

Surely you're joking or you don't know much about me. I would have told you to get the chlorine to work as it should have and saved you whatever you paid for the Filox filter plus, you still aren't getting all the iron out and are depending on the softener to get the last 1 ppm out.

The chlorine should oxidize all of it and all odors unless chemical. You probably didn't have the feeder set up right, weakening solution or improper retention time.

Maybe, but at the moment this is speculation probably based on your experience with Pyrolox and on the assumption the filox will not fully backwash. I am using a vortex tank hoping this will help, and you may turn out to be correct, but so far I notice no degradation of the filox filter's ability to remove iron.

No it's based on what you've said here and my experience with all heavy minerals used for iron, manganese and H2S like greensand and Pyrolox etc..

I agree with your sizing, but I don't think you could have helped me. In my case the problem here is my well pump only delivers 9gpm and almost all backwashing filters require a higher backwash rate than service rate so I'm sort of stuck unless I upsize my well pump (risky), store and repump, or run parallel filters.

I have been a full line full time water treatment dealer since 1987. I have anything any one could need up to large commercial on 3" water lines. So yes I could have helped you as I said above.

As to your pump only delivering 9 gpm, I'll bet you it can deliver more than 9 gpm. I suspect your measurement of the gpm is incorrect by using a 1/2" or 3/4" outside faucet or the same size boiler drain on the tank tee to measure it or, you measured the draw down gallons of the pressure tank which does not give you the gpm flow rate from the pump; it only gives you the time and gallons to refill the tank. IIRC, I mentioned that to you before and you told me that's what you did. I guess you still don't believe me. What that tells you is the time the pump runs to check if the pump is short cycling; not staying off for at least 60 seconds for up to a 1.5 hp motor/pump. The only way to do it right is to disconnect the incoming pipe from the pressure tank's tee, or out at the well by pulling the pump drop pipe some and running the pump to measure open discharge gpm. Ask any pump guy to check that out, although I've been one for a number of years.

[Gary Slusser]

Thank you everyone for your replys. I have decided to cancel the contract on the house and get my deposit money back. From everything that I learned, with iron at 16ppm and a smell this bad, it is going to require more effort to keep this water clean than I am willing to do for this house. I have learned a great deal from this thead and will be ready to put in a system when I buy a house, which hopefully will have water that is a little easier to mangage.

As I mentioned that's not a bad choice especially if the seller won't come down. But the same equipment is used if the iron is over say 5 ppm the amount of iron and odor. Only the size of filters changes.

[drick]

I would have told you to get the chlorine to work as it should have and saved you whatever you paid for the Filox filter plus, you still aren't getting all the iron out and are depending on the softener to get the last 1 ppm out.

I get all or almost all the iron out (I only have test strips which appear read 0 after filtering) and I DO NOT use a water softener. It seems the filox filter pulls out most of it and the centaur gets the remainder.

The chlorine should oxidize all of it and all odors unless chemical. You probably didn't have the feeder set up right, weakening solution or improper retention time.

Hmm, maybe. I airate my water before the chlorine feed. I rely on that to oxygenate the water to some degree so I can set the chlorine feed as low as possible. By the time the water gets to the centaur tank the residual chlorine is down to 1ppm (starts out at 4ppm). This seems ok to me. Weakening solution is no doubt a problem on some level. I did consider adding a tank mixer, but at the moment the water is okay and I don't want to complicate things more than I already have. I try not to mix more that 1 month of solution at a time.

I have been a full line full time water treatment dealer since 1987. I have anything any one could need up to large commercial on 3" water lines. So yes I could have helped you as I said above.

I don't see how. You can't get water where there isn't any. That is, short of a bigger pump, a storage tank, or redrilling the well I'm not going to get more water for backwashing my filters. Thats my problem in a nutshell. When the pump fails I'll most likely be in a better financial position and I'll redrill deeper in search of more water, but until then I'm stuck.

I suspect your measurement of the gpm is incorrect by using a 1/2" or 3/4" outside faucet.

Your correct it was a 1/2 inch outside faucet, but I allowed the pump reach a point where it stopped cycling before I took the measurement (9 gpm).

As to your pump only delivering 9 gpm, I'll bet you it can deliver more than 9 gpm.

Probably, but not much more and not for long. The well is 375 feet deep, recovers at +/- 2gpm and has a 5 gpm pump set 20 feet off the bottom. Static water level is 6 feet below the top of the well head. The lousy recovery rate coupled with the fact I run an irrigation system off this well in the summer doesn't make me feel too comfortable about upsizing the gmp of the pump.

The only way to do it right is to disconnect the incoming pipe from the pressure tank's tee, or out at the well by pulling the pump drop pipe some and running the pump to measure open discharge gpm. Ask any pump guy to check that out, although I've been one for a number of years.

I'm aware of this. However, the fact that my pump stops cycling not too long after opening the outside faucet leads me to believe the pump doesn't have much more to give.

Thanks for your input though, its been an interesting thread! When either the filox or the pump fails I'll go back and revisit the centaur not removing the iron problem.
-rick