Pump Pressure Switch.

I am in the process of installing a new bladder type pressure tank for my submersible pump that I have used for many years, the old tank leaks. My old pressure switch works fine (Square D 20 to 40 PSI but set for 26 to 60) and has for years. I decided to install an new Square D 40 to 60 P switch in keeping with the pressures I use and will probably set it to 35 to 60, or thereabouts.

I installed the switch today and no matter what I did to the settings, when it would activate it would chatter and seldom just work right. Of course I shut it down immediately. The old switch has a little lever to help start it when there is no pressure. The new one does not have the lever. I put the old switch back on and it works fine. I HAVE NOT HOOKED UP THE NEW PRESSURE TANK YET AND THE PROBLEM OCCURRED TO THE OLD SET UP. Everything being the same as it has been for many years, except for the new switch.

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LATEST UPDATE. While awaiting the sign-up process (the mail from this site had been sent to the spam file and it took me three days to find it, duh) I did install the new tank using the old switch with the pressure set about 33 to 65 and it all works great except for a tiny leak where the metal connects to the nasty plastic fitting on the tank. I hate plastic!

I remember a few years back I took out the homemade water hammer dampener that I installed way back just to neaten things up. Everything worked fine until now with the new switch. I am thinking that the new switch is a tad more sensitive than the old one and the dampener needs to be reinstalled. Does anyone there have any ideas? I guess I can just use the old switch, but with all the new stuff I would like a new switch.

Here is a photo of the old dampener (air chamber or whatever). I will make a new one using copper pipe this time to match the new piping.

The switch is to far from the pressure tank. The switch needs to be on the line that enters the pressure tank. The snubber is a bad band aid that would not have been needed, if the switch were in the correct location. The lever on the side of the old switch is a low pressure cut off. This is used to shut the pump off, if you pump the well dry. If you have ever had to push up that lever to get water back to working, it had saved your pump. The new switch will not be able to save the pump if the well runs dry.

And if that disposable cartridge filter is between the pump and the switch, remove it. If it isn't, and you haven't changed the cartridge lately, you should.

Thank you both for answering my note. Regarding the switch with the lever, my well has NEVER run dry. I've had to use the lever only when I have been doing something with the pump turned off, and the tank pressure and line pressure has dropped to zero. Then I use the lever to start the pump until the pressure builds up a little and it isn't needed again until I turn it all off and let the pressure drop.

The switch is on the line going to the tank. It isn't down near the floor right at the tank connection, but if my memory of physics is right, the pressure in a closed system is the same all over unless there is some extreme flow rates that will bring pressure drop into the system. At 5 GPM in a 3/4 inch line there is virtually no pressure drop, at least none that a crude $15 switch can read.

The filter is between the pump and the switch. In the picture the pump is to the right of the filter and way down in a hole in the ground and the tank is to the left of the switch and the filter. I just changed the two cartridges which are set one on top of the other.

As I've said, the system worked flawlessly for twenty some years with the switch at least 10 feet from the connection on the tank. With the new tank it is right next to the tank on the line three feet above the tank's connection.

The new tank is installed and everything works with the old switch. As I think more and more about the installation of the submersible pump many years ago, I think I remember something about using an air chamber because the pumps pressure can build so rapidly when it starts and surge in the form of water hammer when it stops if water is not being drawn from the system to ease the stopping hammer. But the intervening years have muddled those memories a little.

By the way, I did put a connection very close to the tank's connection to where I could move the switch, if I get ambitious enough. Right now it works and I am tempted to leave well enough alone until my old switch dies.

Again, thank you for your answers. Bobtom

You should never have a filter before the switch. When the filter plugs up, it is like closing a valve, and the pressure can't get to the switch to turn the pump off. The pump will continue to run for about 5 minutes, the water around the motor will get hot, the motor will get hot and be destroyed.

Flow rate through 3/4 pipe has nothing to do with it. When the pump starts, the pressure in the line will quickly shut off the pressure switch before the water even gets to the tank. This is what causes the switch to chatter. If your filter is a little plugged up, there is still a little air in the water hammer arrester (pipe with the cap on it), and your old switch is a little sloppy, it may not chatter. However, this is sheer luck and not by design. The air in the arrester pipe will mix with the water and leave the arrester. A clean filter will let water through easier, and a new pressure switch will not be sloppy. Anyone of these things will cause the switch to chatter again, which will put a years worth of wear on the pump in about 5 minutes.

The tank is the arrester for the switch but, the switch has to be very close to the tank. If you are feeling lucky, leave it like it is. Mr. Murphy will see that you think you are lucky, he will kill your pump and leave you out of water at the worst possible time.

Also, if you have PVC well casing, when the filter plugs up it will get the water in the well hot enough to melt the casing. This will lock onto your pump and you will never get it out of the well. Then you will need to drill a new well to put a new pump into.

Murphy Rules!

bob...

All right, all right. I yield to you experts. I am glad you explained it to me in words I can understand. I will relocate my switch very close to the tank. I think I will leave the filter where it is since I have never had any build up of crud on or in the elements. I guess I am blessed with a nice clean lake beneath my house. I used to check the filter fairly often but never found any significant accumulation of anything. I even went for over two years once and all there was was a little iron discoloration. I thought that a bit unusual since we never have any discoloration in sinks, tubs, or toilets. By the way, my filter elements are not like the wound string elements that one sees so often in hardware stores. They are like a porous rock, I don't remember the micron rating, but they were recommended way back when I got my pump. The elements look like a solid rock. If you think I am taking an unnecessary risk there, please say so. In forty years here I have never had a filter really get dirty much less come anywhere near plugging. A friend told me once that I need a gauge before and after the filter to check pressure drop as an indication of plugging. I thought that was a little extreme.

Of all the dire warnings you've mentioned there is one thing that has always worried me. I have never had a pipe break, but I have known people who have. I usually shut the system down when we leave for several days since I don't want a burst pipe or fitting to flood everything and my pump to run till it melts. Is there any type of excess flow valve that would shut it all down if something burst?

Again, thanks for the advice. It takes a while for it to penetrate this old hard head, but it finally did. Bobtom.

I just had to come back and edit this in to my remarks. I was just on a site about filters and read where people had to change filters as often as once a month, or even oftener in some cases. I guess we are pretty lucky in our Indiana location with the clear water we have in our local aquifer. Most of the people in my neighborhood don't even have filters, and as I said, mine never really needed cleaning or changing. I can see where there is a worry about filters plugging up in some of these areas I've just read about. I just don't think we have this problem. Just a nasty 32 grains of hardness. Which reminds me, I have to replace my old softener. Any ideas? Thanks, Bobtom.

Those pressure switches with the little lever on the side, like your old one, will shut the pump down anytime pressure gets low, such as 25 PSI. This does a pretty good job of protecting the pump from running dry. It will also shut the pump down if you have a line break. I had one save my butt one time when the tube on the back of a toilet broke. It pumped a 100 gallons of water or so in the house before the pressure got low enough to shut the pump down. However, it was much better than if it had continued to run for the entire week I was gone. It will only catch large leaks however. Small leaks that do not cause the pressure to get low would never shut the pump down. So I also turn off the power to the pump when I leave for a few days. I even rigged up a light switch by the door to do this. Lights off, pump off, lock the door, helps me sleep better when I am away.

They make devices that are set in the floor and look for moisture, then shut the pump off or close a valve. Just lots of locations where you need to put sensors like, bathrooms, kitchen, water heater closet, well house, etc. Not to practical for me, so I just hit the switch on the way out the door.

Bobtom said:

All right, all right. I yield to you experts. I am glad you explained it to me in words I can understand. I will relocate my switch very close to the tank. I think I will leave the filter where it is since I have never had any build up of crud on or in the elements. I guess I am blessed with a nice clean lake beneath my house. I used to check the filter fairly often but never found any significant accumulation of anything. I even went for over two years once and all there was was a little iron discoloration. I thought that a bit unusual since we never have any discoloration in sinks, tubs, or toilets. .... If you think I am taking an unnecessary risk there, please say so. In forty years here I have never had a filter really get dirty much less come anywhere near plugging. A friend told me once that I need a gauge before and after the filter to check pressure drop as an indication of plugging. I thought that was a little extreme.

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Your well can deliver some really dirty water at any time and plug up that cartridge. It is very common. And you say you don't need the thing, so simply remove the cartridge and leave the housing there.

Bobtom said:

... Just a nasty 32 grains of hardness. Which reminds me, I have to replace my old softener. Any ideas? Thanks, Bobtom.

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I suggest a properly sized softener for your family size, the number of bathrooms and type of fixtures in them, using a Clack WS-1 control valve.

Again I would like to thank you guys for all the advice and help. I like the solution to catastrophic leaks when I am gone, "Shut it all down." That seems to be the best way. If I had sensors all over the house, I am sure I would have a leak where there isn't any. Didn't someone mention Murphy's Law a couple of times? Everything seems to be working smoothly, knock on my wooden head, and I will not be bothering you for awhile. Thanks again!

Sincerely, Bobtom