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Thread: a cludge!!!

  1. #1

    Default a cludge!!!

    Just bought this house and my wife wanted me to do something about the shower drain because it looked all funny. Well the funny part was the amount of silicone around the drain and smeared over the shower pan. Not to mention the drain wasn't level with the pan.

    So I went ahead and took the drain out. Me knowing very little about plumbing took it over to the home depot to get a new one and it turns out that the drain fitting was a 1 1/2 inch sink drain fitting with a 6 inch angled tailpeice that drained into the p-trap. They laughed at me. The reason this was like this was because the plumber hadn't roughed in the drain fittings before the shower pan had been installed. So now it's my problem and rather than do the same thing I'd like to correct it.

    I'm planning on pulling out the whole shower and installing a new shower pan and shower tiles.

    questions....

    1. It looks like the p-trap is cast iron??? I'm going to need to move this to accomodate the new shower pan. Should I use cast iron again or go ahead w/ABS?

    2. How do I get the p-trap out? I only have a 8-9 inch diameter hole to work in(concrete sub-floor).

    3. If I need to create a bigger hole in the subfloor will this affect my shower pan?

    4. If I need to move the rough in around 3 inches could I do it with a couple of angle pipes?

    Sorry for all the questions, just trying to gain some knowledge before I begin this project.

    Thanks,
    Chris

  2. #2
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    Default

    1. It looks like the p-trap is cast iron??? I'm going to need to move this to accomodate the new shower pan. Should I use cast iron again or go ahead w/ABS? You should use ABS if that's what the rest of the drain is. Also, a shower drain should be 2" pipe. 1-1/2" will work, but the larger size is much more clog resistant and drain fittings don't have to be adapted.

    2. How do I get the p-trap out? I only have a 8-9 inch diameter hole to work in(concrete sub-floor). You will need to enlarge the hole, but this shouldn't create a problem with the new shower, it will have to be filled and recovered with concrete. The shower pan should be set in mortar anyway, but this is not to fill that hole, it's to support the base of the shower.

    3. If I need to create a bigger hole in the subfloor will this affect my shower pan? The new concrete doesn't have to be thick or "fancy" finished. Just screed it off to basic level and smoothness and call it good.

    4. If I need to move the rough in around 3 inches could I do it with a couple of angle pipes? A drain should be kept as straight as possible. You can use some angles, but try to avoid abrupt changes of direction.

  3. #3

    Default

    [QUOTE=Gary Swart]

    2. How do I get the p-trap out? I only have a 8-9 inch diameter hole to work in(concrete sub-floor). You will need to enlarge the hole, but this shouldn't create a problem with the new shower, it will have to be filled and recovered with concrete. The shower pan should be set in mortar anyway, but this is not to fill that hole, it's to support the base of the shower.
    [QUOTE]

    So that 8-9 inch hole will be expanded by about an inch possibly two? If this is needed than I have to re-concrete the shower base???

    I didn't think the fiberglass shower pan was set in mortar either? Thought they just sat on the ground. Am I going to destroy the shower pan while trying to get it out?
    Last edited by preparation_h; 06-06-2005 at 10:14 AM.

  4. #4
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Real tilers don't use fiberglass pans! If you are going to tear it out as you said, and put in a new tile shower, I suggest you go over to www.johnbridge.com Their 'liberry' will show you the details of how to do a tiled shower that will outlive you, and you can ask questions from tile pros including structural engineers that can help you decide if the whole structure is capable of holding one up (sounds like it is as it is on a slab, though). If you can't move the shower pan so the hole lines up with the existing trap, then you either have to buy or build a new one that does, or move the trap. You can cut the old trap out, switch to plastic, or redo it in cast iron (I'd do it in plastic, though). Keep in mind that you need to maintain the minimum of 1/4"/foot slope of the horizontal portion, so the trap may come up (a little) higher than it does now depending the trap and material. Take a look over at www.schluter.com and look into their Kerdi shower. If the dimensions of their shower kits would work for you, it is a really neat system; been in use in Europe for decades, and here for maybe one (decade). My unprofessional opinion.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #5
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default shower

    DIY'ers are not "real tile men", and a poorly installed shower pan and floor, can be worse than no pan at all. There are too many questions that indicate the job may not be a good one for him to DIY it in the first place.

  6. #6
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Given the history pages and traffic on John's website, there are thousands of DIY'ers that found the right way to build a tile shower and successfully completed it. You get into trouble when you either don't care, don't know, or can't follow instructions!

    There are also a lot of sob stories of supposed pros that don't know the codes, don't follow the manufacturer's instructions, and continue to build showers that either never worked right, or fall apart shortly after they flee the area to fleece the next guy.

    A pre-made pan can work fine, but it doesn't last as long as a properly done tile one and, if you do the work yourself, other than the tile you put on top of it, it may end up costing less to tile one vs buying a premade one.

    My unprofessional opinion.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hj
    DIY'ers are not "real tile men", and a poorly installed shower pan and floor, can be worse than no pan at all. There are too many questions that indicate the job may not be a good one for him to DIY it in the first place.
    So, the only experience I've had is with a tile floor which came out very nicely. So being a novice I wouldn't mind having someone make a shower pan for me. Ballpark, What do you think that would cost for a 42x34 shower pan from the slab up, not including tiling walls.

  8. #8
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    It's not really that hard. If the size of your shower is such that you can use the Kerdi pan, it is almost cheap. The Kerdi pan is a special foam that is designed to be tiled over. Been used in Europe for ages. Check out the referecnes in my post above. Check out the John Bridge forum on tiling...most tilers won't do only part of a shower, its all of it or none of it. If you can tile a floor, and can follow instructions, you can build a proper shower...
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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