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Thread: Flowise Dual Flush 2479.216 dual flush toilet, problems and questions

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member TIBO's Avatar
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    image worth a thousand words... thanks again Terry

  2. #17
    DIY Member Neotonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIBO View Post
    Hi there,

    I recently bought a Flowise #2479.216 and I'm just not shure about if it is ok or not.

    Here are my questions:
    - Is it normal that at the end of the flush cycle there is no "air sucking action" (in other words: the water doesn't completely go)?

    - Is it normal that there is only water in the little lower part of the bowl, where the drain starts (about 3 inches wide by 4 inches long BY 1 1/2 inches deep? I know that it is suppose to retain less water in the bowl but that little, I doubt it!

    - When we use the toilet for liquid waste, is it normal that some of it remains (the water after the little flush doesn't become perfectly whitty clear)? Because of that un-prooven performances , we didn't have the courage to test the solid waste. Is it safe to use it normally with solid waste?

    - By the way, according to the poor manual, I think that the water level in the tank is ok, if I compare my tank and the schema.

    - What is the popular appreciation of that model?

    - Is it possible to return a toilet to the store or American standard directly if we are not satisfied? (Well, before being satisfied or not, I need your advice on this model).

    Thanks a lot guys,
    - Eric Thibeault

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/A...Sheet_2037.pdf

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/A...Parts_2037.pdf
    You my Friend have American Standard's Attempt at Washdown Flush Technology.

    Washdown is Different from Siphonic in that Washdown pushes the waste out of the bowl unlike what you are used to where the toilet would pull the waste out.

    The Low water level is normal because that is how much water the toilet was designed to hold in the bowl since it is a Washdown Toilet.

    You toilet is not broken if it doesn't make the air bubbly sound because the water is being pushed out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Random caroma PDF
    North American manufacturers produce toilets that use a siphonic flushing system. Siphonic toilets swirl water around the bowl to
    create a vacuum or siphon in the trapway, so water leaves the bowl first, pulling waste out afterward. While this system works very
    well when large qualities of water are allowed, it is much more problematic when water is limited to 6 litres. To still be able to create
    the Siphonic action, trapways had to be reduced to generally around 2 inches. Naturally, the reduced trap size made clogging common.
    Water conscious European manufacturers have been using “Wash down” flushing systems for nearly a hundred years. Unlike North
    American toilets, wash down systems do not have to create a siphon in the trapway. A steeper pitched bowl coupled with an open
    rim design pushes the water very quickly through the trapway, forcing the waste out first, followed by water. There are several
    advantages to wash down. Because they do not have to create a siphon, trapways are able to stay much larger. Caroma toilets
    feature 4-inch trapways that are almost impossible to clog. Caroma toilets also allow for superior line carry, as waste is forced
    out first, followed by the water.
    A Caroma Toilet

    See similarities

    The Caroma is near the bottom of the chart here. Washdown Lg. Diam. Trap
    Last edited by Terry; 11-25-2008 at 12:15 PM.

  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member TIBO's Avatar
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    Hi Neotonic,

    This is a really nice piece of information.

    Thanks

  4. #19
    DIY Member Neotonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIBO View Post
    Hi Neotonic,

    This is a really nice piece of information.

    Thanks
    Not a Problem...I am kind of Jealous lol, I want a Washdown toilet lol
    The Difference between American Toilets and Other....
    Last edited by Neotonic; 11-25-2008 at 07:52 AM.

  5. #20
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Any American bowl with a 3" flush valve is going to kick Caroma's butt when it comes to drain line carry.

    At least if you go by testing for toilets done by independants.
    1.6 gallon, Washdown Large Diameter trap (Caroma), 79% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon, 3" Flapper siphon jet, 108% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon Pressure assist, 132% of average carry distance

    I sell 3,000 toilets a year, very few of the Aussi dual flush.
    There are plenty of better products out there.

    Last edited by Terry; 11-25-2008 at 12:02 PM.

  6. #21
    DIY Member Neotonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Any American bowl with a 3" flush valve is going to kick Caroma's butt when it comes to drain line carry.

    At least if you go by testing for toilets done by independants.
    1.6 gallon, Washdown Large Diameter trap (Caroma), 79% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon, 3" Flapper siphon jet, 108% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon Pressure assist, 132% of average carry distance

    I sell 3,000 toilets a year, very few of the Aussi dual flush.
    There are plenty of better products out there.

    Whoa! That is surprising for me.... I'll keep that in mind when Buying a new toilet.

  7. #22
    Comments by readers Reader Review's Avatar
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    I saw your post regarding the American Standard Flowise Dual Flush back in March of last year. I was just curious if you have been happy with it. Me being one to always look into conservation, I replaced all 3 of my toilets with this model (chair height elongated to be specific). I noticed by design, Fluidmaster has disabled the overflow fill tube, whicvh is probably to save water. The other thing I noticed is that the water level in the bowl is low. In turn this causes a lot of soil build up on the bowl above the water line. Gross, I know. Have you noticed any issues with it?

    I contacted American Std and they agreed with me the design seems flawed, but this was from a phone rep, not an engineer.

    Thanks for any ifo.

    J Farrell

  8. #23
    DIY Junior Member tenax's Avatar
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    i too was surprised by the level of water..glad to find that it's normal for this kind of tech, i guess..i suspect the tradeoff for that low water level will be more "streaking" if i can say that, at times? but i have a toilet bowl brush..it's going to happen with any toilet i've ever had. my only concern would be if the toilet wasn't able to move mass..i picked the american standard dual flush in part because it was map tested at 900 i believe. i have an american standard cadet 6l map tested at 1000 (for 2 years now) and zero issues. as the am standard dual flush seems to be pretty new, i do want to stay on top of any information that may come out about it. (i.e. flawed toilet) but so far, i'm very happy with the 2 i've installed.
    Last edited by Reader Review; 01-25-2009 at 07:48 AM.

  9. #24
    DIY Junior Member tenax's Avatar
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    and moments later after posting i came across what i thought to be a great article. based on what it says, my dual flush am standard is working as expected for the tech, i'd say:

    http://joneakes.com/cgi-bin/getdetailscals.cgi?id=1429

  10. #25
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Welcome to the green world. California already has a mandatory phase in period underway on the 1.28 GPF. By around 2012, all toilets sold will have to be 1.28 Other states and the feds are sure to follow.

    I see graywater flush as the only way to get back to a really good toilet. Or, build new houses with 1" water supplies, enough to supply a flushometer. 1.6 gallon fushometers perform very well, and Sloan already has a dual flush unit, which qualifies as the 1.28 average.


    Graywater is a whole new world, with scary implications when you bring DIY and perhaps worse than that...hack contractors, into the picture. But it would be a challenging new field for a smart plumber. There has already been an incident here where a contractor inadvertently connected the entire potable supply of a new commercial building to the purple pipe rather than the city supply. This went undetected by engineers and inspectors...for a year! Purple, of course, is cleaner than gray water..but is not fit for human consumption, although no one died from it in this case.

    Sloan makes the pressure assist Flushmate tanks in 1.6 and 1.0 configurations.
    WDI Technology makes a 1.6/1.1 pressure assist, many of their flush handles quit working the first year.
    Last edited by Terry; 07-04-2009 at 10:08 AM.

  11. #26
    DIY Junior Member joe plumber's Avatar
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    i'm probably a little late on this but i have experience on these toilets and have replaced 6 or 7 of them because of the same problems you are having. the water level is that low ffor these toilets....it's all for water conservation....but i don't think when they built them any actually sat down and tested one of these after a big turkey dinner lol.........instead of the solids entering water and floating in it, or slowly settling to the bottom. the solids hit the sides and bottom leaving traces of the previos user.....so therefore you hve to use more water to clean the toilet every time you drop a solid, the water conservation goes out the window,and these are the complaints that i have been getting. T

  12. #27
    DIY Junior Member joe plumber's Avatar
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    the company that i work for sometimes does warranty work for american standard and if you call them and speak nicely and explain your problem they will more than likely send a service tech to replace the toilet at no charge.....

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