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Thread: Flowise Dual Flush 2479.216 dual flush toilet, problems and questions

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    DIY Junior Member TIBO's Avatar
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    Default Flowise Dual Flush 2479.216 dual flush toilet, problems and questions

    Hi there,

    I recently bought a Flowise #2479.216 and I'm just not shure about if it is ok or not.

    Here are my questions:
    - Is it normal that at the end of the flush cycle there is no "air sucking action" (in other words: the water doesn't completely go)?

    - Is it normal that there is only water in the little lower part of the bowl, where the drain starts (about 3 inches wide by 4 inches long BY 1 1/2 inches deep? I know that it is suppose to retain less water in the bowl but that little, I doubt it!

    - When we use the toilet for liquid waste, is it normal that some of it remains (the water after the little flush doesn't become perfectly whitty clear)? Because of that un-prooven performances , we didn't have the courage to test the solid waste. Is it safe to use it normally with solid waste?

    - By the way, according to the poor manual, I think that the water level in the tank is ok, if I compare my tank and the schema.

    - What is the popular appreciation of that model?

    - Is it possible to return a toilet to the store or American standard directly if we are not satisfied? (Well, before being satisfied or not, I need your advice on this model).

    Thanks a lot guys,
    - Eric Thibeault

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/A...Sheet_2037.pdf

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/A...Parts_2037.pdf
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    Last edited by Terry; 11-06-2008 at 08:10 AM.

  2. #2
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    I must tell you that I know nothing about this product as I have written off Am.Std. long ago...

    Sorry to hear that you bought a piece of junk toilet from Big Box...

    There are good toilets out there just not with that brand.
    If you could return it I would.
    Then research good toilets.
    Click on the banner ad in the upper right corner.
    Last edited by Redwood; 11-12-2008 at 09:13 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member TIBO's Avatar
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    Hello Redwood,

    Thanks for the reply. You wrote that this is a piece of junk. As a master plumber, can you elaborate a bit more on that for my own knowledge please?

    Also you wrote "If you could return it I would". Sorry, but I'm a french speaking person so I'm not sure about what you wrote. Did you wanna say that I could give the return of the toilet a try?

    Thanks,
    - Eric

  4. #4
    Customer Service Manager Plumbing Wholesale Peanut9199's Avatar
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    If it is not flushing properly give American Standard a call.

    American Standard, 2480 Stanfield Rd., Mississauga, Ontario, L4Y 1S2
    Customer Care Center: Toll Free: (800) 387-0369, Mississauga Area: (905) 306-1093

  5. #5
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Being a gravity dual flush, you will have the small water spot in the bowl.
    I would consider that normal for a dual flush like that.
    The Toto Aquia dual flush and the Caroma dual flush have the small water spot too.
    It's also a washdown bowl, so it may be that some of the water does not leave the bowl on the small flush.
    Hard to say without seeing it.

    Can you post a few pictures here for us to see?

    Is it safe to use it normally with solid waste?
    I'm sure it is.
    Last edited by Terry; 11-06-2008 at 08:43 AM.

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    DIY Junior Member TIBO's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot guys for your posts.

    All of this is really appreciated.

    I will post pictures probably tonight or tomorrow.

    Have a nice day to all of you.
    - Eric

  7. #7
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    American Standard used to be a great company with great products.
    But IMHO they have not made a decent toilet since the mandated 1.6 Gallons Per Flush toilets came out.

    Today they are manufactured in Mexico, Guatamala, Dominican Republic, Brazil, and lord knows where else.

    Their Quality control is non existant and product engineering poor with many of their models sporting numbers behind the name like the infamous Chamion 4...
    This basically means that it is the 4th version that hit the market because of faults in the previous models... Still not perfect but getting closer.

    I am a plumber and I cannot afford to do each job twice or have callbacks on unseen defects. I have adopted the position of not installing that brand unless it's customer supplied in which case I get paid for the installation regardless of product problems...

    I install Toto as my choice when installing a toilet. They work well and I have not had a defect or, callback in 5 years of installing them.

    Here you have a brand new product and it's not working properly of it is working poorly. It should not be that way!

    If they will give you a refund I would take it and run!

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    DIY Member Neotonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIBO View Post
    Hi there,

    I recently bought a Flowise #2479.216 and I'm just not shure about if it is ok or not.

    Here are my questions:
    - Is it normal that at the end of the flush cycle there is no "air sucking action" (in other words: the water doesn't completely go)?

    - Is it normal that there is only water in the little lower part of the bowl, where the drain starts (about 3 inches wide by 4 inches long BY 1 1/2 inches deep? I know that it is suppose to retain less water in the bowl but that little, I doubt it!

    - When we use the toilet for liquid waste, is it normal that some of it remains (the water after the little flush doesn't become perfectly whitty clear)? Because of that un-prooven performances , we didn't have the courage to test the solid waste. Is it safe to use it normally with solid waste?

    - By the way, according to the poor manual, I think that the water level in the tank is ok, if I compare my tank and the schema.

    - What is the popular appreciation of that model?

    - Is it possible to return a toilet to the store or American standard directly if we are not satisfied? (Well, before being satisfied or not, I need your advice on this model).

    Thanks a lot guys,
    - Eric Thibeault

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/A...Sheet_2037.pdf

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/A...Parts_2037.pdf
    You my Friend have American Standard's Attempt at Washdown Flush Technology.

    Washdown is Different from Siphonic in that Washdown pushes the waste out of the bowl unlike what you are used to where the toilet would pull the waste out.

    The Low water level is normal because that is how much water the toilet was designed to hold in the bowl since it is a Washdown Toilet.

    You toilet is not broken if it doesn't make the air bubbly sound because the water is being pushed out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Random caroma PDF
    North American manufacturers produce toilets that use a siphonic flushing system. Siphonic toilets swirl water around the bowl to
    create a vacuum or siphon in the trapway, so water leaves the bowl first, pulling waste out afterward. While this system works very
    well when large qualities of water are allowed, it is much more problematic when water is limited to 6 litres. To still be able to create
    the Siphonic action, trapways had to be reduced to generally around 2 inches. Naturally, the reduced trap size made clogging common.
    Water conscious European manufacturers have been using “Wash down” flushing systems for nearly a hundred years. Unlike North
    American toilets, wash down systems do not have to create a siphon in the trapway. A steeper pitched bowl coupled with an open
    rim design pushes the water very quickly through the trapway, forcing the waste out first, followed by water. There are several
    advantages to wash down. Because they do not have to create a siphon, trapways are able to stay much larger. Caroma toilets
    feature 4-inch trapways that are almost impossible to clog. Caroma toilets also allow for superior line carry, as waste is forced
    out first, followed by the water.
    A Caroma Toilet

    See similarities

    The Caroma is near the bottom of the chart here. Washdown Lg. Diam. Trap
    Last edited by Terry; 11-25-2008 at 12:15 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member TIBO's Avatar
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    Hi Neotonic,

    This is a really nice piece of information.

    Thanks

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    DIY Member Neotonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIBO View Post
    Hi Neotonic,

    This is a really nice piece of information.

    Thanks
    Not a Problem...I am kind of Jealous lol, I want a Washdown toilet lol
    The Difference between American Toilets and Other....
    Last edited by Neotonic; 11-25-2008 at 07:52 AM.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Any American bowl with a 3" flush valve is going to kick Caroma's butt when it comes to drain line carry.

    At least if you go by testing for toilets done by independants.
    1.6 gallon, Washdown Large Diameter trap (Caroma), 79% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon, 3" Flapper siphon jet, 108% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon Pressure assist, 132% of average carry distance

    I sell 3,000 toilets a year, very few of the Aussi dual flush.
    There are plenty of better products out there.

    Last edited by Terry; 11-25-2008 at 12:02 PM.

  12. #12
    DIY Member Neotonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Any American bowl with a 3" flush valve is going to kick Caroma's butt when it comes to drain line carry.

    At least if you go by testing for toilets done by independants.
    1.6 gallon, Washdown Large Diameter trap (Caroma), 79% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon, 3" Flapper siphon jet, 108% of average carry distance
    1.6 gallon Pressure assist, 132% of average carry distance

    I sell 3,000 toilets a year, very few of the Aussi dual flush.
    There are plenty of better products out there.

    Whoa! That is surprising for me.... I'll keep that in mind when Buying a new toilet.

  13. #13
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    I saw your post regarding the American Standard Flowise Dual Flush back in March of last year. I was just curious if you have been happy with it. Me being one to always look into conservation, I replaced all 3 of my toilets with this model (chair height elongated to be specific). I noticed by design, Fluidmaster has disabled the overflow fill tube, whicvh is probably to save water. The other thing I noticed is that the water level in the bowl is low. In turn this causes a lot of soil build up on the bowl above the water line. Gross, I know. Have you noticed any issues with it?

    I contacted American Std and they agreed with me the design seems flawed, but this was from a phone rep, not an engineer.

    Thanks for any ifo.

    J Farrell

  14. #14
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Welcome to the green world. California already has a mandatory phase in period underway on the 1.28 GPF. By around 2012, all toilets sold will have to be 1.28 Other states and the feds are sure to follow.

    I see graywater flush as the only way to get back to a really good toilet. Or, build new houses with 1" water supplies, enough to supply a flushometer. 1.6 gallon fushometers perform very well, and Sloan already has a dual flush unit, which qualifies as the 1.28 average.


    Graywater is a whole new world, with scary implications when you bring DIY and perhaps worse than that...hack contractors, into the picture. But it would be a challenging new field for a smart plumber. There has already been an incident here where a contractor inadvertently connected the entire potable supply of a new commercial building to the purple pipe rather than the city supply. This went undetected by engineers and inspectors...for a year! Purple, of course, is cleaner than gray water..but is not fit for human consumption, although no one died from it in this case.

    Sloan makes the pressure assist Flushmate tanks in 1.6 and 1.0 configurations.
    WDI Technology makes a 1.6/1.1 pressure assist, many of their flush handles quit working the first year.
    Last edited by Terry; 07-04-2009 at 10:08 AM.

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