Toilet + Sewage pump in basement

Right now, my basement floor is almost completely ripped up. Suffice it to say that the people who poured it originally were either on drugs or, as I often say, enthusiastic amateurs. Yes, it was that bad.

Anyway, all this floor being ripped up and re-poured has given me the opportunity to put a powder room in the basement. When you've only got one bathroom, getting another (even just a powder room) is a Big Deal. But, I've never done this before and not being made of money, I only have one chance to get it right the first time.

So, I've read a lot of the recommendations for toilets on this site and found them very helpful with just about everything except one: is it advisable to have one of these low-flush toilets connected to a sewage pump? I mean, would it be better to just have a "regular" toilet and all that extra water to erm... move things along, so to speak? I have a well which has never run dry and it's not like there's a football team's worth of people trooping through here every day using the facilities. My septic tank is only a couple of years old (replaced the illegal one built by same enthusiastic amateurs), so that's not an issue, either. If it helps any, the sewage pump would also be connected (via a long run of pipe) to my laundry tub and the floor drain.

Based on what I've read here, and the size of my future bathroom (which one person has described as "Airplane sized"), I am considering either the Carlyle, Aquia III or Soirée because aside from all their recommendations I've read here, they are smooth sided (so no dust will get on the porcelain) and appear to be small, compact units. Size is an issue in this setup, the smaller, the better. I've tracked down my local Toto dealer and am confident that they can order me in any of these.

The plumber is coming this Wednesday to do the rough-in (the floor is being poured a week Monday) and I want to fax him the specs for the toilet before then, if this is a good route to go, otherwise I think he'll just assume it's going to be a standard toilet. Maybe the rough-in isn't any different? I don't know. Tips? Suggestions? Cautionary tales? Opinions?

A 12" rough-in is normal. Low-flow toilets are required pretty much everywhere on new construction in the US...you'd have a hard time buying one legally, if at all. Not all work well. Toto's seem to be an exception. The sewage ejector pump has a float. They typically can take multiple deposits before they turn on. You shouldn't have any problem. Pick a toilet you like the style of in the Toto line, and you should be okay. A really decent one many people like is the Drake or the Eco-Drake. I put two of these in my mother's house. Others will provide a different look, if that works better for you, but may cost more. Pick something other than a Toto, and it may not work as well.

I hope I'm not ever installing a skirted toilet in an airplane bathroom...

Redwood said:

I hope I'm not ever installing a skirted toilet in an airplane bathroom...

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Well, I wasn't going to put up the one wall until the fixtures were in! And, the way I have it laid out, the plumbing will all be exposed in the laundry room, where only the furnace will ever see it, so I hope it's not too bad to install.

I wish there was more room, but there's not. Trust me, I spent hours last weekend trying different things on the computer and this is the only way it's going to fit, and still allow access to the furnace. And some people have asked if I'm also putting in a shower. Ha!

Up here in my part of Canadia, you can still get regular toilets, or at least I've seen them for sale online (I don't know if there's any in stock). But, as this powder room will be off of my new home office, I'd like something a little fancier looking than just the standard. Nothing too crazy, like those hatbox toilets -- cha-ching! -- just something a little out of the ordinary.



Hatbox toilet by Kohler

Cyndical said:

is it advisable to have one of these low-flush toilets connected to a sewage pump? I mean, would it be better to just have a "regular" toilet and all that extra water to erm... move things along, so to speak?

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My wife and I have a 100-dollar, 1.6-gallon toilet flushing into a sewage sump with a pump in our own basement, and we have yet to have any problem at all. Sometimes the ejector pump runs after three flushes, and sometimes after four. As far as I know, there is no reason for having a larger flush.

Okey-dokey. This whole plan is out. Gone. They dug down and hit rock (which I told them they would) and there's not enough depth for a standard sewage pump. They can't get a shallow one for four weeks and I'm at the end of my tether.

So, as an alternative, the plumber has suggested a Saniflo like this, but they can put the unit on the other side of the wall so you can't see it.

Never having had one or even seen one, I have no idea if this product is any good. The plumber says that he's been installing them for 20 years and he's never had a problem. Judging by the unit, installing a Toto is out, it would have to be a toilet with a different opening at the back, instead of the bottom.

Can anyone provide any insight? My basement has been ripped up for almost 2 months now, I don't want to go another month, especially with winter coming.

Cyndical said:

Okey-dokey. This whole plan is out. Gone. They dug down and hit rock (which I told them they would) and there's not enough depth for a standard sewage pump. They can't get a shallow one for four weeks and I'm at the end of my tether.

So, as an alternative, the plumber has suggested a Saniflo like this, but they can put the unit on the other side of the wall so you can't see it.

Never having had one or even seen one, I have no idea if this product is any good. The plumber says that he's been installing them for 20 years and he's never had a problem. Judging by the unit, installing a Toto is out, it would have to be a toilet with a different opening at the back, instead of the bottom.

Can anyone provide any insight? My basement has been ripped up for almost 2 months now, I don't want to go another month, especially with winter coming.

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Buy a good quality 1.6gallon toilet and put in the Saniflow. I have a regular sewage pump in my basement office, and the only trouble that I have is once in a while the float gets hung up. My signal for this is a gurgling in the toilet, but since the flush volume is low it has never gotten close to overflowing. A little shake on the vent pipe gets it back running again. You can reduce problems altogether by minimizing #2 in the toilet. Never use it to dispose of cloth type wipes or feminine products.

Have you considered a wall-hung toilet?

I've looked into Saniflo systems for my own basement bathroom since I cannot install a sewage ejector basin either.

I don't think standard toilets will fit onto the Saniflo Saniplus units, only the ones that are sold with it (european style rear spigot). Also, from reading various reviews on the web, it seems that you would do better to spend a little extra and buy the Sanibest unit which is commercial grade and can grind up feminine products too, although it is louder but that shouldn't matter since you'll be installing behind the wall.

You could use a standard toilet if you install a Sanigrind system (http://www.saniflo.com/SANIGRIND.aspx) but you would need to build up the floor accordingly to accomodate the waste pipe.

Alternatively, you could look at the Zoeller Qwik Jon Ultima (http://www.zoeller.com/zcopump/products/homeimprove/qwikjonUltima.htm). They have two styles, one that works with their toilet bowl, and another (model 203) that says it will accept standard rear-outlet toilets like the AS Yorkville. Not sure if you'll be able to install this behind a wall though.

hope this helps

If you have the headroom my preference would be one of these systems.

Zoeller Qwik Jon

or,

Liberty Lo Pro 41LP

With thes you can select any 12" rough toilet.

I'm not sure just how much head room there will be, the concrete is going to be poured on Monday, but it won't be a standard 8' high ceiling. The toilet may have to be installed on a small subfloor like Dri-Core and the tile, to keep as much height as possible. I don't know if a "real" subfloor like is shown on those websites would be possible, but probably not.

At least you guys have given me some other options to check out. And I do agree that a unit with more power would be better. Noise might be an issue, I'll have to see just how loud it is and insulate accordingly.

And speaking as a woman, what kind of dummy puts their sanitary stuff down the toilet? Seriously, I've never done that, that stuff isn't supposed to go down there, when you consider all the plastic on those things. Maybe it's the fact that I've grown up with a septic tank and when you live with that, you *know* it's not all just being magically whisked away someplace where you'll never ever have to think about it again.

You would be surprised by how many of these systems get taken out by house guests...

I had one last summer where the daughters pool party was still going on...
All the regular residents knew better...

Well, the contractor let me down. After having more than 5 weeks (!) to break out the one big rock, he left it to the last minute and then didn't show up yesterday like he said he was going to. And now, I've had to cancel everything else and due to winter coming on, I won't get my new basement until spring. Whee.

On the "up" side, at least now I'll have plenty of time to order that shallow sewage pump and get that installed.