That was pretty funny stuff, and no one wants to know what killed the horse?
Call some disposal (dumps) and ask first if they accept asbestos, then if yes, find out how it has to be packaged. Double-bagged with the appropriate bags is my guess. They don't want it flying around while they move it, nor should you.
Important note - I'm not a pro
Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014
That was pretty funny stuff, and no one wants to know what killed the horse?
Here's the last bit of advice. I have no respect for someone who trys to save a buck (such as you) as asks me to perform work in a basement when an illegal asbestos abatement has been performed. The telltale signs are obvious and I have walked off of more than one jobsite because of this. Go ahead with your plan ... just put others at risk.
Well, at least he asked first. I wonder if you realize just how many homes you were pro ably in that did the very same thing. Without asking of course. Your kids probably ( if you got kids) played in someone's basement or even your own basement without any knowledge that their was once that dreaded stuff; and not taken out properly. You want to know how that stuff is disposed of alot? Maybe, you don't want to know come to think of it. It might not make your day. But, I will give you a hint, watch where you dig and don't apply for a refuse collectors job. Just an added tidbit of information here about those fibers, it takes a zillion years, ( I forget the true number but it is alot/huge) of years for a fiber to drop from your eyelash to the floor. I only know this because my favorite cousin removes it for a living for our fair state. He dealt with my collection of it for me in my yard. I was grateful to him, I tried to give him some tomato's but he wouldn't take them, None of my neighbors over 80 wouldn't take them, so I guess they know who buried the stuff and the horse.
I guarantee he heard what he didn't want to hear, will go ahead and do it anyway and we will never hear from him again.
These are the same folks that made match head bombs when they were kids.
Whats the purpose of coming to a forum to ask questions when he wont listen to the answers?
3-4g to remove the abestos from the piping
1.6 g to remove the piping
Knowing you and the family will sleep without inhaling abestos fibers priceless.
People because of the expense of having it removed, remove it alot more than one thinks. The schools are a huge problem. So many times you think your kids are safe and in a healthy environment but they are not, either at home or at school. How many people buy a home, and have no idea it was there and removed whether 10 years ago by the homeowner or 1 week ago in order to get a sale. Bottom line there are no guarantees. The answer lies in reducing how much is charged in having it removed and then, disposed of, and then, the air-checked , etc. No one wants to hear that who provides the service, no matter who it is. No one wants to hear, that people can't pay that amount of money to have it removed and are stuck in a catch 22. You got to ask yourself, who is to blame for this? People come here and ask questions, and so many times they get jumped on, and you know yourself it isn't right. Sure, it isn't right to do it yourself and then, some plumber comes in and services the pipes. But, like I said, no one knows how often you guys have already done it, how many times our kids were exposed. I feel so sorry sometimes for people who are caught in the catch 22, they want to do the right thing but it is out of their reach. I am not saying to do it yourself is right, so don't jump on me; I am just saying, I can understand all the sides and can empathize.
Even when I was a kid, I played with the stuff. My brother and I rolled big rolls of it all around the basement floor back and forth to each other. Let's hope it wasn't in bad shape. I used to sit with my mother while she ran her wringer and ran my hands up and down the pipes , Oh, I loved that feel of it, guess what it was?
So you never know.
And, let's talk about that wonderful pink pather stuff. Or the yellow, it comes in colors. Fiberglass. The wonderful world of Fiberglass. You breathe that too, and it contaminates not only the lining of your lungs, but your nose, etc. It stays with you forever. Especially, when it ages. So, if you got it, like I do, in the basement ceiling where the fibers fall down on me; I got it in the outside storage room under my bedroom, it falls down all over my stuff. So, when I go and pick something up, I move it around.
There are so many things the list goes on and on.
Last edited by Cookie; 10-10-2008 at 03:30 PM.
He did listen to the answers and will hopefully take all or some of the advice...but because someone asks a question doesn't mean they will follow the answers, their purpose may just may be to gathering info. to decide what element of risk they will be taking if they go forward with their intentions...after leaving here then they are taking their calculated risk...to what ever degree they determine is warranted for the job they are doing...humans have always done this....some make out with their decisions and some regret it later...
Every so often there are questions asked that the questioner really wants reenforcement of his hopes for a simple, quick, and cheap way around a problem that has no such answers. These folks frequently reject the advice given and continue to hope that a miracle solutions will suddenly appear. You're right, we usually never hear from them again so we never know for absolute certain what they ended up doing, we just assume they bulled ahead and did what they wanted to do in the first place. Best we can do is to offer them the right answers and let them go.
Here I got a question for you all. Having that dreaded stuff removed is very expensive, let's just say, what if a person has pipes leaking and not enough of the cash to remove that dreaded stuff, what are his options? That is a catch 22, poor fellow. Kindness never kills.
For instance, a close relative had to put a new roof on his house, that was not a problem, but removing the old one was. It was 18 thousand to remove it. Now, he had the money to do it, but not everyone does.
If you spray asbestos down to prevent it from being airborne, you can't breathe it at that point.
Wrapping the pipe and asbestos with heavy 4 mil poly and taping it off, then breaking the fittings at the turns of direction (cast fittings break easily)
and then you chuck that stuff to the landfill.
Years ago I made the mistake of "asking first" and now I have my name tied to a landfill forever since I contributed to the demise of the world with this ****.
To my surprise, and it will happen any state you dump, they threw the stuff in the same spot everything else was going. The difference was I was stupid to make it known for 3 measely small bags not weighing 60 pounds. Idiot!
But, horse hair plaster is loaded with asbestos and people don't realize that for most plasters back in the day. They don't talk about that, or the heavy layers of lead paint stuck to it either.
I agree that it should be properly dealt with like anything, but if you really think asbestos is a problem right now...consider the following:
For all those "Green" believers? Your thinking using these battery operated cars are 10 times more dangerous to enviornment than the alternatives to the big picture of carbon footprints.
When those cars get in accidents, it's a hazardous waste scene if the vehicle sustains enough damage to bust the case of the battery. Children with their faces burned completely off, parents, friends and family disfigured because you wanted to save in the reality of $1400.00 less on average in fuel consumption than anyone else. But lest we not forget that your electricity supplied to your home was powered by coal so where's the savings?
The batteries they sell at the stores? Anything from a AAA to D is now completely a JOKE compared to the longevity of batteries years ago. Why else are they cheaper in volume and purposely put at the cash registers or close to it? Marketing.
Now, they have these newer ones that last 4 times longer, which in actuality, is the same damn battery years ago, they just want to justify a higher price and consider you the fool for the cheaper ones because you're cheap and you "think" it's a good deal.
Take all those "cheap" batteries entering the landfills, add in these new battery operated cars and we are slowly poisoning the ground we walk on.
I don't recall the world being in such a bad shape when leaded fuel was the norm, nothing got over 15 miles to the gallon and every car on the road weighed 3 tons or more. It's the amount of people that inhabit this world that's causing the problems, not the methods we started out with.
By no means am I knocking technology and its advances but there are serious side effects to the dangerous poisons/contaminates that are present with everyday thinking.
Those flourescent bulbs will be somehow the asbestos scare years from now when mercury levels start raising in homes and the government goes gee-whiz, we never thought those bulbs would be dangerous.
Read what the end of this sentence means.
I have been trying to get myself to stay out of this, but the temptation is to great.
For reference, my info comes from having worked for two years for the division of a large insurance company that deals with asbestos and pollution liability. During my time there I looked into the asbestos issue as best I could in the time I had.
The stuff can kill ya in an extremely painful manner if you get sick from it but the chance of getting sick from it is way overblown. In most countries, asbestos is not considered the environmental hazard it is in the US. Most (if not all) folks who get sick from the stuff have other factors in addition to the exposure. These would include smoking and respiratory issues. My understanding is that studies have shown that without other factors present folks don't get sick.
The reason that insurance has paid out so much money on this is that the lawyers have been able to get payouts for exposure. That is to say that folks who never got sick (and hopefully never will since they have now given up the ability to sue) have received payouts as settlement from the insurers. Over 50% of the money paid out though goes to lawyers.
With all of that said, sickness from methulseleoma (not sure how to spell it) or asbestosis is a low frequency but extremely high severity event. If you are going to remove it yourself, make sure that you isolate the area from the rest of the house, wear proper breathing protection (I was thinking about doing it and picked up a gas mask rated for germ warfare), have a method to clean the air in the room prior to removing however you isolate it, have a method to prevent the carrying of the contaminants from the removal room (a portable shower is needed), and remove it using the proper procedures. The procedure that I was told to use was to MIST the asbestos with a mixture of water and soap, cover it with a garbage bag, remove it from the pipe, and then place it in a second garbage bag. You should double bag. When you remove it you need to be careful about remnants left behind. They need to be removed since they are likely disturbed and will become airborne.
After you remove the stuff you have to find a legal way to dispose of it. The penalties if you dispose of it illegally are significant.
The best solution I have heard is to wrap it. If you have a leak, you redo the plumbing and leave the wrapped asbestos in place. You need to check if this can be done according to code in your area.
If you choose to take the risk, make sure that it is you taking the risk and not your significant other or kids. You can choose to subject yourself to a potentially horrible death, but should not do that to your kids. Also pick up an air purifier that has standards higher than HEPA. I don't remember what the standard is called. Run it in that room until it has cycled the air a couple hundred times. After all that, you should get the air tested for asbestos fibers.
All of this may sound like overkill, especially after I started by saying that the risk is overblown. The bottom line is that this is a sickness you do not want exposure to. If you have no choice but to remove it yourself, it can be done, but is best not.
Rugged you are right about the bulbs. I use the new ones for outside only, but refuse to put those inside. Just think, we got rid of the thermostats and now, put them in all our lamps? I am confused...
Home Depot at least will dispose of them for you.
So far as those cheap dollar store batteries, do not ever use those things in smoke alarms. They are extremely unreliable.
I had this musical clown once, and watched him spinning and singing, and smoking...
AND, you are also correct about what you said about getting rid of the dreaded asbestos in that fashion. I have a cousin who removes it professionally and I was watching once while he did it, and to be very honest, he did it exactly the way you described. Not much difference at all. I am not saying everyone should do it theirselves, but, that is the way he did it, with the plastic etc, and, he even did it in my home. He makes mega bucks in removing it; smokes like a chimney, drinks like a fish, rides a Harley, and will live to be a hundred. I hope so anyway. He is funny and I adore him.
I wouldn't send it off to the landfill, maybe, I would just bury it if I didn't want to pay to have it taken away. It makes lettuce grow like crazy, or is it from the horse maybe,
I don't care about "green" or any of that other junk. What I care about is liability. It is illegal to remove and dispose of asbestos without proper permitting, inspection and disposal paperwork. Illegal. I can't do it and neither can this guy although he probably will in the middle of the night. If caught he should be prosecuted. Why should he be able to get away with something just because he can't afford to do it right? If you can't afford to do it right than don't do it at all. I'm sick and tired of all these guys justifying improper and illegal acts just because they don't have the money. Whether or not asbestos will kill you isn't a subject open to interpretation. It does, it will and it has. As usual this selfish person is more interested in his wallet than the health and safety of his own family. Again, I'll bet his wife knows nothing of his half baked plans.
Last edited by Cass; 10-12-2008 at 10:13 AM.
I will stand by my comments. He came here looking for advice and unfortunatly the advice he recieved isnt what he wanted. The advice he was looking for is that abestos abatement companies are a rip off and that anyone walking upright can remove it and throw it in the rubbish. He knew it shouldnt be done as a DIY'er because he called and got estimates. Those estimates was too much for his pocket book so he came here and checked if It was a diy'er project.
For the record I think the gov has too much control but some cases I believe we need to follow guidelines.