Gas line question

[goofy_american]

nhmaster, thank you for your concern but I respectfully disagree.
I am going to be installing Type L flexible copper gas lines with no connectors.

There will be two flared ends and the entire line will be pressure tested.

From the chart posted, I can see that Type L copper line at 1/2" nominal at a length of 40 feet will be approximately 41 MBH. One MBH is equivalent to 1000 BTU's per hour.

The larger fireplace only needs 30,800 BTU per hour.

This isn't rocket science. The city inspector wouldn't let me do it if it were so dangerous.

Care and caution will be used.

[nhmaster]

Type L copper can not be flared. Thanks for re-inforcing my point. No matter though, you will go right ahead and do what ever you want. Frankly I'm tired of trying to save the world. Enjoy yourself. Bring marshmellows.

[goofy_american]

Well you might want to tell the Black & Decker Corporation that their book is wrong then...

http://books.google.com/books?id=8oS...esult#PPA44,M1

Look at the chart at the bottom of the page.

Flexible copper - Type L - Flare? Yes

Need another source that is "wrong" also?

http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/pl_pip...270855,00.html

[nhmaster]

Tell you what. You run on down to the cheepo deepo and grab a stick O type L copper. Its the one with the blue stripe down the side and says type L right on it. Then apply your flaring tool and see what you come up with.
Not one, but both of your DIY bibles are wrong. One is just wrong and the other is probably a typo. Type K is soft copper, suitable for flaring, not type L. But you are more than willing to argue the point with me and most likely every other plumber on this site. Why waste time though? you have it all figured out, now go on ahead and get to it.

[Redwood]

Write back and tell us about Hyper-Baric Chambers...

[kingsotall]

The B&D chart referred to soft copper Type L for flaring.

[Peanut9199]

Type L copper can not be flared.

For my own knowledge, why can't Type L be flared?

Bring marshmellows.

HAHA

[Redwood]

It can if you anneal it first... LOL

[Terry]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26576425/


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23393302/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16889108/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24755512/

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23500125/


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21166640/
This one in Tacoma I felt. I was having lunch a mile away when it blew.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25963011/

[nhmaster]

Those are absolutly horrifying photos. Thanks for posting them. Unfortunatly I doubt the point will be taken. When certain guys get something in their heads, nothing is going to stop them. I often wonder how many of these guys let their wives see the thread? Bet they'd be making a call to a licensed pro if the old lady got wind of things.

On the type L copper thing. I have seen it listed also but never in 35 years seen it in production. I placed a call to Revear today but have not heard back from them.

[Redwood]

That first link Terry posted where the Kentucky couple was killed in the gas explosion...
Pretty much sums it up in these quotes...

Luella Reils, 87, and her husband of 67 years, Clyde, 88, were killed in the blast in the first block of Sycamore Lane in Frankfort, which destroyed their home and damaged a dozen more.

Tom Bartnik, Frankfort's development services coordinator, said at least one home to the south of theirs and possibly a second home will have to be demolished.

The force of the explosion scattered the couple's belongings throughout the neighborhood. Anyone who finds things from the Reils' household is asked to take them to the Frankfort Police Department.

I still remember vividly the first gas explosion that I responded to as a volunteer firefighter... All the windows and doors were laying about 30' away from the home in the yard. The casings and all had blown right off the house. The house had a disheveled look to it like it had been picked up off the foundation and dropped slightly cocked on the foundation. The house was on fire.

The homeowner who had gone down into the basement through the outside hatch to relight the pilot on a malfunctioning water heater was burned and had ringing ears. He had flipped on a light switch and next thing he knew he was sitting on his butt out in the yard about 50' away.

The wife was knocked to the floor when it rapidly came up off the foundation. She also had ringing ears and some minor burns singed hair and so on. She escaped to the outside.

Due to the severe structural damage to the house our firefighting efforts were from the exterior of the house. Orders were given not to enter the home. After the fire was extinguished and everything was under control we looked around a bit and discovered a pan that was crushed between the house and the foundation when the house came back down. Using this evidence it was obvious that the entire house had lifted off the foundation at least 1' high. The house was later demolished without anyone being allowed to enter the home. Their new home does not have gas!

Yea! Go ahead! Do your own gas work!

[Dunbar Plumbing]

All I can say is...



Get Back! cuz she's gonna blow!

DIY Homeowner that doesn't have the know.

[Ladiesman271]

Those are absolutly horrifying photos. Thanks for posting them. Unfortunatly I doubt the point will be taken. When certain guys get something in their heads, nothing is going to stop them. I often wonder how many of these guys let their wives see the thread? Bet they'd be making a call to a licensed pro if the old lady got wind of things.

The results shown in those photos were not caused by DIY projects. That being said, if I were going to do that fireplace work myself I would use black steel pipe for the job. A would also at least get a price from a pro to do that job. If it was a propane job, I would not do it myself.

I repiped my gas line to my instantaneous water heater with black pipe (about 10 feet of pipe). It is not hard to do, but it takes a lot longer to plan the work than most people realize. I also changed the shutoff valve to my furnace while I was at it.

Still, you need to know what you are doing for DIY gas / vent work. The national fuel gas code book is an excellent resource. If you can not understand the code book, you should not DIY!

[nhmaster]

There is a misunderstanding that Propane is more dangerous than Natural gas. They are both equally explosive and dangerous.

I would also pipe this in steel pipe and so would the vast majority of gas fitters and plumbers. But as you know, steel pipe takes more work and specialty tools where as flaring copper is fairly simple.

1/2" type L copper is hard tempered. It can not be flared and even if annealed to soften the pipe you would have to use acr fittings to make up the joint as 1/2" nominal L, is 5/8" actual outside diameter and 1/2" soft copper is 1/2".

On a further note. When it comes to advice about gas piping or gas appliances or for that matter gas anything, I'm done. I'm not going to have anything to do with gas related questions anymore either helpfull or not helpfull or even wize cracks. It has become a painfully obvious that there are too many that are willing to take on a task that could very well injure or kill themselves or their families, with no regard given to the professional who's advice they seek. I have no idea what your abilities or qualifications are and frankly even if you post them I would still be skeptical unless you were able to post a copy of your license. Therefore in my mind it is not ethical for me to either give advice or make criticism of your project in one way or another.

[Ladiesman271]

There is a misunderstanding that Propane is more dangerous than Natural gas. They are both equally explosive and dangerous.

Propane and natural gas are a bit different. Propane gas is thinner than air (and settles to low areas generally); whereas, natural gas ( methane) is lighter than air (and rises generally).

"Generally, approximately 26 million people use propane gas; whereas, more than 100 million people use natural gas. You are four times more likely to be involved in a fire or explosion using Propane (LP Gas) vs Natural Gas (Methane). You are 13 times more likely to be severely injured or burned with Propane (LP Gas) vs. Natural Gas (Methane). You are more than 100 times more likely to be killed or severely injured if there is a product failure using Propane (LP Gas) vs. Natural Gas (Methane)."


http://www.burnsurvivor.com/injury_e...xplosions.html

I would also pipe this in steel pipe and so would the vast majority of gas fitters and plumbers. But as you know, steel pipe takes more work and specialty tools where as flaring copper is fairly simple.

1/2" type L copper is hard tempered. It can not be flared and even if annealed to soften the pipe you would have to use acr fittings to make up the joint as 1/2" nominal L, is 5/8" actual outside diameter and 1/2" soft copper is 1/2".

I trust my ability to use and test steel pipe and fittings. I prefer not to use short length flex gas connectors for fixed equipment, let alone long runs of copper lines (as proposed above) and the use of flaring tools and other fittings.