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Thread: Lake water supply line freeze prevention

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  1. #1

    Default Lake water supply line freeze prevention

    I am constructing a cottage in Ct. The building is 6" above grade on concrete piers. Water supply is from a lake 40' away. The water line is buried 36" but
    must be exposed above ground at pump connection and were it enters the building. The pump location is designed to be outside against the building in a small enclosure. I know this section will freeze in winter.
    1. Is there a way to insulate and or heat the line to avoid freezing.
    2. Is there a simple way to empty water in pump and line to below freeze depth in soil.

  2. #2
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Heat tape!

    What lake are you on?

  3. #3
    Computer Programmer Bill Arden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Perrie View Post
    Ct. 6" above grade on concrete piers. The water line is buried 36" but must be exposed above ground at pump connection and were it enters the building. The pump location is designed to be outside against the building in a small enclosure. I know this section will freeze in winter.
    1. Is there a way to insulate and or heat the line to avoid freezing.
    2. Is there a simple way to empty water in pump and line to below freeze depth in soil.
    1. Yes
    They make a waterproof heat tape and you can wrap closed cell foam insulation around the pipe and then use a piece of4 inch PVC pipe to protect it.

    2. Not easily.

    Will the cottage freeze in the winter?
    Why not put the pump in the cottage?

    If the system is shut down for the winter, you could use RV antifreeze to protect the pump and pipes in the cottage.
    Important note Ė I donít know man made laws, just laws of physics
    Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of Darwin awards.

  4. #4
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Arden View Post
    If the system is shut down for the winter, you could use RV antifreeze to protect the pump and pipes in the cottage.
    I would just set it up for gravity drainage or have it blown out with an air compressor...

    I would not want anti freeze introduced into the supply system.

    Its fine in fixtures and traps.

  5. #5
    Porky Cutter,MGWC Porky's Avatar
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    Default Heat tape, maybe!

    My preference would be to install a submersible well pump in the lake with the tank and pressure switch in the cottage. In the winter you could have a drain valve below the water freezing level. Turn off the power to the pump, open all the faucets in the house and then open the drain valve and everything in the cottage (except the commode and hot water tank) will drain back into the lake.

    If you are going to be using this cottage year round I would still mount the submersible pump in the lake and insulate and install a heat tape on the water line from the ground to inside the cottage.

    This should work great unless I am missing something that I'm not advised of here! It beats and above ground jet pump because the pump won't freeze and you never have to prime it.

    This is what we do to cabins, camps and cottages in PA and other freezing areas. The only difference is that the submersible pumps are in the wells.

  6. #6

    Default cottage lake water supply

    I am going to take your advice to install a submersible pump. This solves the concerns with pump and line freezing. Now an underground electric service to the pump in the lake approx. 150' is required. The water line distance from the building to the submersible pump location in the lake will be approx. 150'. w/ a verticle rise of about 15'.
    I will also use the heat tape and insulation surrounded with 6" pipe on the exposed sections and extend that underground 2'.
    I have no knowledge of submersible pumps.
    My concern is sand and debris drawn into the pump. My thought is 6" perforated pipe over the pump and pipe w/ filter fabric (sock) to prevent debris from entering.
    Any recommendations on quality submersible pumps or other ideas.

  7. #7
    Computer Programmer Bill Arden's Avatar
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    I still don't see why you don't pound down a sandpoint and use the sandy soil as a large filter.

    Raw lake water contains lots of stuff that I would not want in my water. :P
    Important note Ė I donít know man made laws, just laws of physics
    Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of Darwin awards.

  8. #8

    Default [QUOTE=John Perrie;156663]I

    what you can use is also install a 75w light bulb near the concerned area and enclose it you will be ok

  9. #9

    Default

    http://www.cottagewatersupply.com/

    Great reading for your problem.

  10. #10
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    You can look at Submersible Pumps here and for keeping it clean, I can put the pump inside one of my lake strainers for you. When the bag gets dirty, simply take it off and replace/clean it. This will keep out anything that would plug the pump or it's impellers.

    I just updated my pictures of accessories and need to redo the lake strainer. You can use the link provided there to go to their website where there is a better picture. The link is: Water Well Accessories

    bob...
    Last edited by Terry; 07-10-2011 at 06:27 PM.

  11. #11

    Default [QUOTE=John Perrie;156663]I

    The eases way is to make a small dry well close to the pump under the pipe before the pump about 2x2 2 feet deep minimum , and at that point drill a 1/4" hall on the bottom of the pipe , this will ensure that there will be no water left in the pipe from that point on once after pump stops,
    If you are worried about the water may be too much for the small well or maybe peculation is not too god depending on the soil if pump runs to often, then you should install a shut off at that point with a bleeder and make a trap over it with a thick cover.
    i have the same situation at my cabin and i have no grit electric , with solar and battery's can't have a heat strip (rope)
    so i have 2 lowest places where i run drain pipe to out side with no valves on them , what i did is i installed a temp water valve on the inside of cabin that are normally closed hooked up to 12v dc no current draw at all , they are set from factory to open when temperature drop to 35 f and will empty out everything i want to drain at that temperature . sal

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