Is This Up To Code?

Usually someone comes up with a comment that ends any debate we they say it is done this way so ???? doesn't happen. The light turns on and everybody sees that there is indeed a reason.

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I am ALWAYS looking for the reasons and have had MANY of light bulb moments. That is why I asked for input on the subject.

My point is do you want to second guess the code process?
You could find yourself out on a limb...

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I second guess just about EVERYTHING. I have always been that way.

And......I have also never been afraid of being out on a limb. You use all the things you have learned to determine if the limb will carry your weight and you make the decision to go out and how far to go out. OR, you climb down and get a ladder.

I guess maybe the thing about or discussion that may vary from you is we had no intention of doing anything against code. Someone was merely saying why do we do it this way and discussion followed.

Sounds like you write your own code...

Sounds like you write your own code...

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We all do to varying degrees. THINK about it. Do you always stop completely at that 4 way stop intersection that you can see clearly for a half mile in all directions? Do you ever drive 2 miles over the speed limit? You are writing your own code. You feel that you have enough sense to do so. Sheesh.

I TRIED to give some examples from other areas in life. I hope you never lived in VA

I wasn't the one whe decided that romex didn't need to be stapled every 4'. the tradesmen in the 50's did. I came into the trade in 1974 and thats the way it was, and still is done. Thru the years I have torn apart countless homes during remodel and have yet to come across one that was stapled every 4'. It's a GOOD THING too because in many cases the old cloth romex sheath completely worn away. We carefully pull out as many staples as we can reach to avoid a serious failure. The staple makes a nice heating element and is conveniently driven into 2x4 kindling.

Staples are evil and I avoid them. If the cable lays clean it and it doesn't get in the way of the drywall/screws, it doesn't get a staple. How many times to you think the cable gets hit, even a little bit? I have control over my hammer but the majority of houses here are wired by 1st year guys.

I can't believe all of you are still bothering with this.

It's called a conversation. An exchange of information and ideas generally used to further our education and stimulate our minds. Anyone can join in even if they have nothing to add but a snide remark.

But I do snide so well.

Sorry bud that no one is on your side again there Alect. That is purposely why I kept out of this until now.
Since everyone else is already disagreeing with you I felt my comments would be redundant.

If everyone was on my side it wouldn't be a conversation it would be a coffee clutch.

I rarely try to change anyone's mind but I do like to present opposing viewpoints.

On one side or the other, somebody is bound to learn something.



BTW, do you staple your cables every 4' running on top of the joists?

Alectrician said:

BTW, do you staple your cables every 4' running on top of the joists?

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In new construction; absolutely.
In old work with a wide open attic; again, absolutely.
In old work with a tight inaccessible non-storage type attic; no, not usually.
Even though areas like that are not actually "concealed", an argument can be made that 334.30(B)(1) does apply.

It's not a matter that I disagree with the code and say screw it. Depending on the space, if it is not practical to staple sometimes you just have to let it go.


So I guess to be honest, I only partly disagree with you on practice.
What I do disagree with is your blanket "Everybody does it that way, all the time" attitude.

I'm pretty sure I know who you are and I know we have been through this many times. That is another reason I try to stay out of these "discussions".


Listen, you have to admit, you have a long history of thumbing your nose at the code in many instances. You have a very cavalier and nonchalant attitude when it comes to codes you disagree with.
That's fine for you, it's just not cool when you preach that attitude to DIYers and others not in-the-know.

I know we have been through this many times. That is another reason I try to stay out of these "discussions".

So I guess to be honest, I only partly disagree with you on practice.
What I do disagree with is your blanket "Everybody does it that way, all the time" attitude.

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I am sure that I clarified my "everybody" to mean "everybody in my area" and it's a blanket statement because it is TRUE.

I'm pretty sure I know who you are and I know we have been through this many times. That is another reason I try to stay out of these "discussions".

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220/221? I assumed you knew who I was. I think I signed up on a couple boards a Alectrician before I swityched to 220. I just never resigned up here.

Listen, you have to admit, you have a long history of thumbing your nose at the code in many instances. You have a very cavalier and nonchalant attitude when it comes to codes you disagree with.

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There is no question that I thumb my nose at a handful of things. You have your list of things also but are more shy about revealing them.

No one has been able to tell me why the items on my list are in any way dangerous including the issue being discussed here.


The homeowners question was "is this to code" and while the answer is "no", I felt that she should know that it is in no way unusual or dangerous. It's just the way it is. My theory is that when this code was written, houses had "real" attics and they wanted the wiring secure. In post 1950 construction the situation is different, apparently in the Southwest. Attics like the one posted are only for mechanical components and insulation. No one is ghoing to be tripping over those cables...ever.

I am not arguing with you just to be difficult Pete, I am just bored.

my two cents worth:
the question was "is this up to code". the answer is NO.

the wires are to be protected if they could be stood on. I dont care if its done wrong or ugly. code is law and therfore for legal and peace of mind i stick to code.

the wires are to be protected if they could be stood on

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You'd have to be only 20" tall to stand on those

It is not up to code in Cook and Dupage counties in Illinois.

Not sure where you live.

Steve

Alectrician said:

On one side or the other, somebody is bound to learn something.

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Somehow I doubt that is possible...

If you think about it are you any different than this guy?
https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23137

Redwood, please don't bring that feud around here!

I've seen that thread. Even I have not had such a childish feud with someone on a message board. And I've pissed off a lot of people.

If you think about it are you any different than this guy?

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Come on now dude. You used the worst possible example you could find of heating up PVC.

There are cases in which I've had to cut a 3 or 4" PVC 90 down to 50 or 60 degrees to make it fit. Big pipe, tight space = difficult.You have to heat up the cut end to get it back to round so it will slip into a coupling. The POCO here says you cant do it but I'm smart enough to do it right. When it's done you have what looks and acts like a factory 60 degree bend.

PS. The last house I plumbed, I put a short piece of ABS in my heater box to get a tiny bend in it. You know the piece that goes from the tub overflow down to the drain tee? It seems that most tubs are at a vertical angle on the drain end and the tee and doesn't line up properly with the overflow pipe.

. Maybe most plumbers just leave it crooked. I don't know. I do know that the hot box heated it slowly and evenly enough to make it fit perfectly wit no signs of burned or damaged pipe.

Oh Boy!
Sorry Speedy Pete...
It is as I said birds of a feather...

Interesting situation we have here. This must be a manufactured home with such a low attic space. More than likely it was wired under Hud than the Nec. Seen this type of wiring many many times. Safe or unsafe? Electrical is one of the few things you can install totally wrong as per code and it will still work. Still doesnt make it right. In this instalation its not likely it would be a problem as far as protection goes because almost no one could crawl up there.
If I remember correct the 2008 code does address this issue of not stapling in the attic. You might see more rejections in the future. just because its been a standard practice doesnt mean its right.