Chlorine damage question

5GPM 2-wire 3/4 HP 220 v Goulds sub - only 5 years old. Pulled pump due to inadequate pressure, pump shutdowns, etc 400 foot depth.
Chlorine pellets(to address sulphur problem) in half dissolved piles on the round cable guards on entire length.

Film and rusty looking coating on the entire plastic coil pipe, wire, etc.

Pump and motor has a film on it. Had to be power wire brushed off to clean it up.

Plastic coil pipe cleaned up OK as well as torque arrestors with warm soapy water.

Anyone seen this before and know what might have been damaged.

There are three in line check valves on the coil pipe and one before the pressure tank in the basement. Can those have corroded and not open fully causing a strain on the pump?

Also.....How do people protect the submersible pump wire if you can't use cable guards with the chlorine pellets?

Thanks,

John

craftech said:

5GPM 2-wire 3/4 HP 220 v Goulds sub - only 5 years old. Pulled pump due to inadequate pressure, pump shutdowns, etc 400 foot depth.

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Describe inadequate pressure, and the shut downs.

craftech said:

Chlorine pellets(to address sulphur problem) in half dissolved piles on the round cable protectors on entire length.

Film and rusty looking coating on the entire plastic coil pipe, wire, etc.

Pump and motor has a film on it. Had to be power wire brushed off to clean it up.

Plastic coil pipe cleaned up OK as well as torque arrestors with warm soapy water.

Anyone seen this before and know what might have been damaged.

There are three in line check valves on the coil pipe and one before the pressure tank in the basement. Can those have corroded and not open fully causing a strain on the pump?

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You have a high iron content water and with or without the chlorine, you'll have rust buildup on all the materials in the well; it's normal and not a problem usually unless it blocks up the pump's inlet screen. Or the pellets eat holes in the cable, pump or drop pipe.

The 3-4 check valves, plus the one in or on the pump's outlet probably have a 5 psi cracking pressure. So 3-4 times 5 = a lot of lost pressure. And there is nothing good about having all the extras, you only need the one in/on the pump. The torque arrestor isn't a good thing but won't reduce pressure or cause pump shut downs.

What damage did you find?

I agree with everything Gary said, plus I do not like Pellet Feeders. I have seen some major damage that has been done by them. If you must treat your water with chlorine, do it up top after the well instead of in it.

bob...

Gary Slusser said:

Describe inadequate pressure, and the shut downs.


You have a high iron content water and with or without the chlorine, you'll have rust buildup on all the materials in the well; it's normal and not a problem usually unless it blocks up the pump's inlet screen. Or the pellets eat holes in the cable, pump or drop pipe.

The 3-4 check valves, plus the one in or on the pump's outlet probably have a 5 psi cracking pressure. So 3-4 times 5 = a lot of lost pressure. And there is nothing good about having all the extras, you only need the one in/on the pump. The torque arrestor isn't a good thing but won't reduce pressure or cause pump shut downs.

What damage did you find?

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At first the Pumptec Plus would stop the pump with a solid amber light indicating "underload". House is two story colonial with three bathrooms, two bathtubs, 2nd floor laundry, kitchen, two outside hose bibs. Gave up having parties here. Water would quit every half hour on us while toilets would flush at the same time people were washing dishes.

Inside:
Check valve and copper pipe to 84 gallon Myers pressure tank set to 38psi.
40/60 Furnas pressure switch.
Pumptec Plus pump protector (installed a year ago). Before that I tried a pressure switch with a low pressure cutoff, but I was downstairs pulling up the lever to start the pump all the time. Even filling a bathtub would be too much. Pump couldn't keep up with the water demand. Took 10 or more minutes to go from 40 to 60.
Whole House filter (Big Blue) with 5 micron Pentek filter (CP5BB) that reduces pressure by 5-7psi. Filter often has black carbon like deposits embedded in it that look to me like Manganese. Not always present. I don't think I have iron in the water. Not 100% sure though. In the summer time especially I know that without any chlorine, a white grease that looks like GoJo hand cleaner will build up and form in the well. 20 years ago when I pulled up the pump we needed a truck with a huge winch to pull the pump up through that stuff. Almost lost everything. Even bleach will dissolve it though.
Hydrogen sulfide odor was addressed with Pot Perm for years until we removed the system (ruined clothes, turned water black, hate the stuff anyway). Chlorine pellets started five years ago (threw them in manually). Worked well for the sulphur. Didn't know it was wreaking havoc in the well with the metal, etc or piling up on the obstructions.

Well:

420 foot depth. Pump set at 390 feet. 4 GPM well recovery. 100 foot or so water column. Coil pipe, 12 Gage (2-wire + Gnd). Originally had a 5 GPM F&W pump with same Franklin 3/4 HP motors as the Goulds has.

*Replaced motors every 7 years because they would burn out. Used to use a 30/50 system with a smaller pressure tank.

Five years ago replaced pump and motor with the Goulds 5 GPM 3/4 HP referenced above. Not sure if it was damaged. I know water dripped out of it when I pulled the pump up. Seemed unusual. Don't know if the check valve at the top has failed or not. Should I rebuild it anyway or get a larger pump? I do have a brand new 1HP motor that I could attach to the Goulds pump. Also, the F&W pump still works AFAIK. Could reuse it.
Looked to be well built and much heavier than the Goulds. Has had six motors over the years. I have the local record for number of times I pulled my well pump. Almost routine.

NOTE: the original pump and all the motors I replaced had no deposits on them. These deposits are something brand new in the last five years. Maybe the chloring reacted with the iron well casing and dripped down into the water corroding the pump and motor outside (and maybe inside?)

So if all the check valves should come out and the torque arrestors and cable guards removed, how does one protect the wire from getting skinned?

And what do you recommend I do so maybe I can get a whopping ten years maybe before I have to pull up my well pump again?

The well driller never wanted to know anything after he drilled. They go for depth here. The deeper the well, the more they get paid. After that it's the homeowner's headache for life and they won't answer any questions unless you want them to come back and make your well even deeper. Then they will drill it to 800 feet in a flash for you.

John

speedbump said:

I agree with everything Gary said, plus I do not like Pellet Feeders. I have seen some major damage that has been done by them. If you must treat your water with chlorine, do it up top after the well instead of in it.

bob...

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Hand tossed them in - no pellet feeder. And I only require around 10 volts to operate

John

That's better than the feeder. You probably would have had much more damage with one. Chlorine down a well is not a bad thing as long as you rinse down the casing right after pouring it in. I don't like pellets because they sit on things and dissolve on those things and do a lot more damage than liquid can do.

bob...

If you are going to use pellets to shock a well, instead of bleach, dissolve them in water first.

Pellet droppers will rarely have to be set up to drop near as many pellets in a short time frame.

But what damage did you find? Cable guards break when you pull the pump after a few years anyway and are very cheap to replace.

I see a previous reply that I didn't see until now.

You really need a water analysis and I think the white stuff is from the pellets.

Repeatedly shocking a well is a very bad idea. It causes bacteria to cause encrustations that chlorine can not penetrate. It also causes metals to corrode to nothing; even SS.

Use cable guards, I didn't mean to imply not using them.

You should check the static water level when the pump is acting like there;s no water or too little. As the level falls, the pump has to work harder and may not be able to do the job because it is undersized for that depth of water.

Gary Slusser said:

If you are going to use pellets to shock a well, instead of bleach, dissolve them in water first.

Pellet droppers will rarely have to be set up to drop near as many pellets in a short time frame.

But what damage did you find? Cable guards break when you pull the pump after a few years anyway and are very cheap to replace.

I see a previous reply that I didn't see until now.

You really need a water analysis and I think the white stuff is from the pellets.

Repeatedly shocking a well is a very bad idea. It causes bacteria to cause encrustations that chlorine can not penetrate. It also causes metals to corrode to nothing; even SS.

Use cable guards, I didn't mean to imply not using them.

You should check the static water level when the pump is acting like there;s no water or too little. As the level falls, the pump has to work harder and may not be able to do the job because it is undersized for that depth of water.

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I know this is a lot to throw at you guys, since my problems go back 25 years with this well and these pumps so first thing I want to do is tell both you Gary and Speedbump how much I appreciate that you take the time to selflessly help people here.

At this point I will start from scratch if you want to take some time to read all that stuff I posted when you get a chance and tell be what I should get. Larger pump? 7GPM with a 1HP? 10GPM with a 1HP? No check valves or torque arrestors. Cable guards an no pellets in the well. I am ready for anything at this point. Being a DIY person, I have saved a ton of money anyway, so the cost of parts are not a problem for me.

Thanks you so much for the help. Both of you.

Regards,

John

I think I'd stick with the 3/4 \7 and get rid of the check valves. Then I'd do my chlorinating after the pressure tank. You should use new standoffs and torque arrestor they are cheap and REPLACE the wire also, as you would be amazed at how many so called pump problems are really corroded, broken or undersized wire problems.

nhmaster said:

I think I'd stick with the 3/4 \7 and get rid of the check valves. Then I'd do my chlorinating after the pressure tank. You should use new standoffs and torque arrestor they are cheap and REPLACE the wire also, as you would be amazed at how many so called pump problems are really corroded, broken or undersized wire problems.

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OK, so a 7GPM pump and new 12 Gage wire instead of the 5GPM pumps I have been using and a post chlorination system. Cable guards and torque arrestor. No check valves except the one in the pump and just before the pressure tank.

Same 3/4 HP motor instead of 1HP? Table in the booklet that came with the motors I have purchased over the years don't seem to recommend anything less than 1HP motors for 40/60 pressure combined with 400 foot depths. I used 30/50 up until 5 years ago, then went to 40/60. All with 3/4 HP motors. I would like to keep 40/60 so according to the Table I think I need at least 1HP for that depth. 7GPM with 1HP? 10GPM/1HP seem more common. Is that too large a pump?

Thanks,

John

Your 5 GPM pump is already capable of overpumping the well, as demonstrated by the Pumptec response. The fact that the Pumptec is indicating low load means the water is down to the pump level (390 ft).

The fact that the Pumptec indicates low load at that level indicates that the well probably is not producing even 2 GPM at 390 ft water level.

The 5GS07 is beyond marginal at the 390 ft level. See the table at the link. http://www.goulds.com/pdf/7310.pdf It is rated at 1.2 GPM at 60 psi from 380 ft.

Putting the 1 HP motor on a 7 GPM pump will make the problem worse.

Putting a 1 HP motor on the 5GS07 pump will not make any difference.

A 1 HP 5GS10 pump will give you lots of margin on head and about 4 GPM at 60 psi from 400 ft. You could buy the 5GS10 water end alone and use your 1 HP motor. You may have to change the Pumptec, or at least adjust it.

That will not make the well produce much more water but will make the well pump out faster. You could get a slight amount more water because keeping the water down often increases the recharge rate.

If your hourly demand is too great for the well capacity you can improve things with a cistern. Your 5GS07 will deliver all of the water the well will produce to a cistern.

Bob NH said:

Your 5 GPM pump is already capable of overpumping the well, as demonstrated by the Pumptec response. The fact that the Pumptec is indicating low load means the water is down to the pump level (390 ft).

The fact that the Pumptec indicates low load at that level indicates that the well probably is not producing even 2 GPM at 390 ft water level.

The 5GS07 is beyond marginal at the 390 ft level. See the table at the link. http://www.goulds.com/pdf/7310.pdf It is rated at 1.2 GPM at 60 psi from 380 ft.

Putting the 1 HP motor on a 7 GPM pump will make the problem worse.

Putting a 1 HP motor on the 5GS07 pump will not make any difference.

A 1 HP 5GS10 pump will give you lots of margin on head and about 4 GPM at 60 psi from 400 ft. You could buy the 5GS10 water end alone and use your 1 HP motor. You may have to change the Pumptec, or at least adjust it.

That will not make the well produce much more water but will make the well pump out faster. You could get a slight amount more water because keeping the water down often increases the recharge rate.

If your hourly demand is too great for the well capacity you can improve things with a cistern. Your 5GS07 will deliver all of the water the well will produce to a cistern.

Click to expand...

Thanks Bob. I haven't been back here for awhile to thank you. Sorry about my poor manners. Much appreciated.

What do you think of the Sentry I Open Air System?

http://www.betterwaterind.com/Open-Air/Sentry I Open Air.html

Regards,
John

I don't know anything about the Sentry I and there isn't much information on the site about how it works. It doesn't say how the chlorine is added and it doesn't say anything about how precipitated contaminants are removed.

The ad suggests they do everything but make breakfast. I suspect that the ad is to get your name and "upsell" you a very marked-up system.

I would talk to Gary Slusser or Bob(Speedbump) on this forum to get their suggestions based on actual needs.