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Thread: Soiree vs Ultramax vs Drake

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Ernie-in-TX's Avatar
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    Default Soiree vs Ultramax vs Drake

    I'm still a little confused, after researching various sites over the past few days. I am in a 1 1/2 yr old house with builder installed toilets, with plungers sitting right beside them, they just don't work.

    I'm pretty convinced that Toto is the toilet to buy to replace them, but still trying to decide between Soiree, Ultramax, and Drake.

    1) Is the double cyclone flush on the Soiree better than the other two? Or does it primarily help in bowl cleaning?

    2) Drake has gram rating of 900, Ultramax 700, Soiree ?? Is the difference here meaningful? Or is anything above 500 going to work just fine?

    3) Which of the three is the quietest? Noisiest? Is the noise relative ... i.e., even the noisier one may be quieter than some less expensive toilets?

    4) I like the one piece design, but have no particular issue with the two piece, either. Other than cleaning, does the one piece have other benefits?

    5) SanaGloss sounds great, does it make a good difference?

    6) Eco models reduce water usage, but also lower the gram ratings, apparently. Just as in #2 above, is this meaningful?

    While prices and cost have their place, the difference between the Drake and the Soiree would not keep me from buying the Soiree if it is indeed better in the aspects that matter.

    Thanks for the help and opinions.


    TOTO Soiree pedestal lav, faucet and toilet suite
    Last edited by Terry; 03-21-2009 at 10:50 AM.

  2. #2
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie-in-TX View Post
    I'm still a little confused, after researching various sites over the past few days. I am in a 1 1/2 yr old house with builder installed toilets, with plungers sitting right beside them, they just don't work.

    I'm pretty convinced that Toto is the toilet to buy to replace them, but still trying to decide between Soiree, Ultramax, and Drake.

    1) Is the double cyclone flush on the Soiree better than the other two? Or does it primarily help in bowl cleaning?

    2) Drake has gram rating of 900, Ultramax 700, Soiree ?? Is the difference here meaningful? Or is anything above 500 going to work just fine?

    3) Which of the three is the quietest? Noisiest? Is the noise relative ... i.e., even the noisier one may be quieter than some less expensive toilets?

    4) I like the one piece design, but have no particular issue with the two piece, either. Other than cleaning, does the one piece have other benefits?

    5) SanaGloss sounds great, does it make a good difference?

    6) Eco models reduce water usage, but also lower the gram ratings, apparently. Just as in #2 above, is this meaningful?

    While prices and cost have their place, the difference between the Drake and the Soiree would not keep me from buying the Soiree if it is indeed better in the aspects that matter.

    Thanks for the help and opinions.
    Ernie You are looking at the right toilets! The plunger is as good as gone!

    The double cyclone has more bowl wash and that gets rid of the skid marks.

    All of those toilets flush in a range where clogging sould be non-existant for most people excluding those that have medical abnormalities.

    The noise on any of them should not be a factor.

    The one piece is primarily a matter of taste and cleaning.

    The sanigloss finish is super smooth and helps in keeping things clean.

    The eco models while having lower capacity in some cases is not really a problem. In some conditions with a older home and a badly leaking sewer line less water per flush can be a problem.

    You are on track and primarily its down to do you want the Soiree for its increased bowl wash?

  3. #3
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    1) Is the double cyclone flush on the Soiree better than the other two? Or does it primarily help in bowl cleaning?
    The double cyclone is a different rinse. It swirls around the bowl from two outlets near the top of the bowl. I would say it's better.
    I would have the Guinevere and the Soiree at the top of my report, except that they sell for more. They are the best though.
    The flush is the same.
    The Guinevere and the Soiree are big sellers for me. A customer may start off with one to try it out, and then I get called back to install more. One customer in Medina wound up with five of the Guinevere toilets.
    We have installed dozens of these.

    2) Drake has gram rating of 900, Ultramax 700, Soiree ?? Is the difference here meaningful? Or is anything above 500 going to work just fine?
    Both John Koeller and I believe that anything 500 or better is very good.
    Watersense puts their label on anything 350 or better.
    If you have at least a 500 rating, then I'm looking at bowl rinse and quality of porcelain.

    3) Which of the three is the quietest? Noisiest? Is the noise relative ... i.e., even the noisier one may be quieter than some less expensive toilets?
    Most of the Toto toilets I have installed have some sound of water sucking through the trapway at the end. It varies on the room acoustics.
    I installed a Drake at my daughters and an Ultramax in my last house, that were surprisingly quiet. And yet, sometimes I install one, and I hear more water noise. There has to be something with the room, there just doesn't look to be any difference between bowls that I can see.
    When I go to Canada, and flush some of their older toilets, they seem pretty noisy, so I would say that most new toilets will out quiet the old stuff, unless you have the old 9.5 gallon, slow, barely move it out, lo-boy self plugging toilets of the past.

    4) I like the one piece design, but have no particular issue with the two piece, either. Other than cleaning, does the one piece have other benefits?
    I would say that there is a subtle noise difference to the trained ear, with the edge going to the one-piece.
    Cleaning is better,
    There is less that can go wrong with a one-piece.

    5) SanaGloss sounds great, does it make a good difference?
    Sanagloss is much cleaner than standard glaze.
    Mine downstairs is 2-1/2 years old, and is like the day it was installed.

    6) Eco models reduce water usage, but also lower the gram ratings, apparently. Just as in #2 above, is this meaningful?

    Flush performance is enough with the 500 gram ratings.
    There is a little less water on the rinse. So, that being the case, I like to see Sanagloss with the Watersense models.
    For the Drake, that would be a CST744EG with Sanagloss
    And the Gwyneth with Sanagloss, MS604114CEFG
    You can use the non-Sanagloss bowl on the Eco stuff too, but the brush will be used a bit more.
    The EcoDrake ADA is rated at 900 grams.
    The EcoDrake elongated is rated at 600 grams.


    Gwyneth bowl with Sanagloss and double cyclone rinse.
    Last edited by Terry; 07-25-2008 at 03:27 PM.

  4. #4
    Customer Service Manager Plumbing Wholesale Peanut9199's Avatar
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    I have installed Soiree in my house and the reasons i picked Soiree was:
    -1pc and skirted is easier to clean
    -Double cyclon flush rim washes the toilet and no holes under the rim to get dirty.
    -Sanagloss is easier to clean the bowl.
    -Comfort height a lot more comfortable
    -very nice look

    The flush is exceptional, the only problem is the Uni-fit roughin (normal for skirted toilet) some people complain you can hear the water dripping when using it (because it's plastic) and you can but when your finished and it refills you don't hear it any more.

  5. #5

    Default Soiree gets my vote.

    Ditto to the above! We have a new Soiree and are very happy with it. I did a 7/11 posting about it in the remodel forum with a pic if you want to take a look too.

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    DIY Member Mort's Avatar
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    Happy Soiree rider here as well. Can't compare it to the others because after I bought one I was so happy with it that I immediately outfitted the other two bathrooms the same. Had looked at the ?Carlton? too but the cyclone flush works.....plus they're stylish

    Mort

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    DIY Junior Member Ernie-in-TX's Avatar
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    Thanks for the quick input, guys. I was leaning toward the Soiree, but I think this confirms it.

  8. #8
    DIY Senior Member SteveW's Avatar
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    Not that you need it, but one more + for the Soiree. Great bowl wash, like the one-piece design and comfort height. I would definitely buy the same model again next time I need one.

  9. #9
    DIY Senior Member SamC's Avatar
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    One more choice that Terry pointed out is the Gwyneth. It is one piece, flushes 500 grams with 1.28 gallons, has Double Cyclone and Right Height, can be had with Sani-gloss, and costs less that the Soiree.

  10. #10
    Customer Service Manager Plumbing Wholesale Peanut9199's Avatar
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    Gwyneth is only available with the Sanagloss in the White, Bone and Sedona Beige.
    No Sanagloss is only available in Gray or Ebony.

  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member Ernie-in-TX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamC View Post
    One more choice that Terry pointed out is the Gwyneth. It is one piece, flushes 500 grams with 1.28 gallons, has Double Cyclone and Right Height, can be had with Sani-gloss, and costs less that the Soiree.
    Since Gwyneth is non-skirted, is it easier to install than Soiree? Is it just a "drop-in" replacement for the typical builder installed cheap toilet?

  12. #12
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Gwyneth?
    They are a quick drop in installation.
    Pull it from the box, stick it on the wax, and attach the seat.

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member GramGram's Avatar
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    Default Toto Drake is a dream

    After over a month of research and many e-mails to this site, I finally decided on the Toto Drake (1.28 gal. flush) It is SOOOOOO nice! I REALLY wanted a skirted toilet but it appeared to be an issue because of the less than 12" rough-in. I just measured the rough-in in the 1/2 bath and it is about
    11 1/2" also. (Now to save up the $$$ to change that one out!)
    I can barely hear the flush. One pull on the flush lever and everything is GONE! Like, in an instant. I expect to see a major difference in my water bill from now on.
    I don't even know if it has Sani-gloss since it is so pretty and sparkling as is.(The self-closing lid on the seat is really nice, also.)

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