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Thread: Hose Bib Question

  1. #1
    HVAC Contractor Marc46's Avatar
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    Default Hose Bib Question

    What do you pro plumbers recommend to remove defective "anti-syphon" valves from a hose bib?

    I am referring to the type used in Florida,........they simply screw on, and have a set screw to keep them tight. House is 16 years old.
    That is the problem!! The recessed set screws are rotted out, and no way can you get a hex key in them. They leak constantly when you turn the bib on, plus I hate the things, as they spew water everywhere when you turn a hose off.

    I have three outside, and removed one years ago by drilling out the set screw.
    The remaining 2 of course, can not be reached with a drill, as the set screw is against the house, at the tightest point, on the bottom/inside area.

    Replacing the bibs, is a PIA in my situation,..........copper pipe sweat connections, and the flange buried under stucco.

    Any ideas?
    Thanks, as I have a couple questions posted on the forum today!

    Last edited by Terry; 06-18-2011 at 08:49 AM.

  2. #2
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    Default

    They are designed to be installed only once and can not be removed without damaging the threads.

  3. #3
    HVAC Contractor Marc46's Avatar
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    The first one I drilled the set screw out successfully,.........and attached a quick-connect type fitting.

    These as I said, leak everytime I turn the water on.
    I was thinking of trying to cut through the brass with a Dremel in a couple of spots, and try to break it off.

    Just thought that some of you "plumber" folks may have an idea that is better than mine.

    Don't really want to break my wall open so I can sweat a new bib on!
    WTH purpose do the things serve unless one is a moron, and leaves a hose laying in stagnant water, and were to lose pressure?

    I hate the freakin' things.
    Maybe I am alone on this one!

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default vb

    The setscrews do not have a hex, they were tightened and then the head of the bolt snapped off to secure them. I cut a "V" wedge on either side of the lockscrew and then remove the piece with the bolt. Then the VB unscrews.

  5. #5
    HVAC Contractor Marc46's Avatar
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    HJ,
    That makes sense, as I remember seeing them with a bolt in them.

    What gives someone a right to dictate breaking off a bolt head,............nevermind, I know the answer. The building and zoning department. They are "protecting" us all.

    Think I could send them a bill?

    I understand what you are suggesting, but don't know if I will be able to make that cut where the bolt is.
    Guess my only other option is a couple of spaced cuts on the face,........trying to not hit the threads, and then spread it enough to remove it.

    Needless to say, I will not be putting new ones on, or if I do,.......they will be minus the bolt!

  6. #6
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    It's just a back flow device, Probably not important. Who cares if half the neighborhood gets sick?

  7. #7
    HVAC Contractor Marc46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    It's just a back flow device, Probably not important. Who cares if half the neighborhood gets sick?
    Just to make you feel better, and "possibly" understand what I am saying,............I am on a private well,........not municipal water.

    As I said before,........I turn off my hose bibs, unless I am using them, and roll them up, and disconnect them.They do not lay on the ground.
    Explain to me how that is a danger,.........even to myself on a well.
    It is certainly not a danger to anyone else sir.

    I am not a plumber, I am an HVAC contractor, but you seem to be painting me as a fool.

    There always has to be a "special" person, on every board it seems!

    Edit: Do you consider it to be "moronic" to not like hose bibs that spew water all over when they are turned on, and never stop?
    Why would I not want the ability to easily replace them when they go bad as mine have?
    BTW,........don't tell me that they don't go bad as a usual occurrence,........most folks I know feel the same as I do about them.
    Granted my home is 16 years old, but why should I need to knock holes in my wall to repair a leaky "back-flow" device that has been rendered non-replaceable by the building codes? I have no issue if I am able to replace them easily,............as nothing lasts forever.
    It was a simple question, and nothing more.
    Last edited by Marc46; 08-16-2008 at 03:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc46 View Post
    Just to make you feel better, and "possibly" understand what I am saying,............I am on a private well,........not municipal water.

    As I said before,........I turn off my hose bibs, unless I am using them, and roll them up, and disconnect them.They do not lay on the ground.
    Explain to me how that is a danger,.........even to myself on a well.
    It is certainly not a danger to anyone else sir.

    I am not a plumber, I am an HVAC contractor, but you seem to be painting me as a fool.

    There always has to be a "special" person, on every board it seems!

    Edit: Do you consider it to be "moronic" to not like hose bibs that spew water all over when they are turned on, and never stop?
    Why would I not want the ability to easily replace them when they go bad as mine have?
    BTW,........don't tell me that they don't go bad as a usual occurrence,........most folks I know feel the same as I do about them.
    Granted my home is 16 years old, but why should I need to knock holes in my wall to repair a leaky "back-flow" device that has been rendered non-replaceable by the building codes? I have no issue if I am able to replace them easily,............as nothing lasts forever.
    It was a simple question, and nothing more.
    Well, I'm just speachless here. You win. With such an eloquent argument for why you should not have to abide by the codes you sir, should have been a lawyer. Your talent is wasted. Again I bow down to your knowledge and wisdom. You are indeed, only a danger to yourself.

  9. #9
    HVAC Contractor Marc46's Avatar
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    Let me try again,........without sounding like an attorney.

    What is the best suggestion for removing "faulty, and constantly" leaking when on, anti-syphon valves, on an outdoor hose-bib?

    I would like to replace them with new "non-leaking" valves, and leave them in the state that they can be replaced when needed without knocking out the walls of my home.

    Possibly this will be received better, since I am not defying building codes with this particular question.

  10. #10
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc46 View Post
    I am on a private well,........not municipal water.
    Great! Contaminate the whole damn aquifer!

  11. #11

    Default

    The above posters are correct - the integrity of the backflow protection should be maintained. So - the first step in removing the old protection is buying new protection and having it ready to put on when you get rid of the old ones.

    Were you to simply replace the hydrants, you'd find that new hydrants have backflow protection built in, and that they (the Woodfords at least) are rebuildable.

    Try tightening them if you must, until the set screw appears where you can drill it.
    Steve's Plumbing Service

  12. #12
    General Contractor Carpenter toolaholic's Avatar
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    Talking E Z Boston Baked Beans

    Simple , I'm a welder . Metal cutoff blade in a 4 1/2" grinder. Use a light hand ,2 cuts 180 degrees apart. IM NOT A COP !!!!!

  13. #13
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Most of the time, we just bite the bullet and replace the frost free faucet.
    I means getting to the back side of it so you can put a wrench on it.
    You find the inside wall that it goes into, and cut a square about 8" x 8".
    You can cover that with a plastic access panel, sold at any hardware store.

    I like using the Legend Frost Free faucets, but there are many other brands that work well too. If a hose fits the thread, you are home.

    Faucets with back flow prevention is a good thing.
    The gray matter may have a hard time with the concept, because you haven't gotten sick from your water yet.
    You just need to take a trip where they are very casual about their water. Diarrhea makes for a pleasant trip, as long as you don't die from whatever you are catching.
    Last edited by Terry; 12-15-2008 at 04:08 PM.

  14. #14
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default vb

    You can cut the screw out even on the underside it just makes it a bit harder. If you do not remove the screw it will damage the threads on the valve no matter how you remove it.

  15. #15
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc46 View Post
    Let me try again,........without sounding like an attorney.

    What is the best suggestion for removing "faulty, and constantly" leaking when on, anti-syphon valves, on an outdoor hose-bib?

    I would like to replace them with new "non-leaking" valves, and leave them in the state that they can be replaced when needed without knocking out the walls of my home.

    Possibly this will be received better, since I am not defying building codes with this particular question.
    The back flow preventer is required by code in most areas. We don't know if it is required by code in your area, but it is a good idea to have one. You say that YOU always take off the hose, never lay it on the ground. But what about your wife, what about your kids, or the illegal alien who "borrows" you water to wash his bicycle? What about the future homeowner who buys your house? The point is, the codes are written to protect everyone. A code or plumbing practice cannot rely on one "dependable" homeowner to be long-term safe.

    Now, the devices are designed as tamper-resistant for obvious reasons.

    You can try to remove it by drilling out the screw. Another choice is to replace the valve with an anti-siphon bibb, which has a built in, serviceable back flow device.

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