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Thread: Install Lighting From Fan Source

  1. #16

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    Ok, now just decide what you want for your switches to control.

    What kind of switches do you have?

    Regular toggle switches like this?
    http://images.hardwareandtools.com/T/u325977.jpg

    Or "Decora" like this...
    http://www.asihome.com/images/lev-80411-w.png

    The following is a "double switch" which can fit in the place of one switch...
    https://www.theelectricalexchange.co...es/9526342.jpg

    This is a light dimmer switch...
    (One of many different types)
    http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/211N9D2PDPL.jpg

    These are various ceiling fan speed controls...
    http://www.foxelectricsupply.com/con...tegoryId=24666

  2. #17

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    Other things to find out if you can is what size conduit you have? Typical sizes are 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch.

    Then what size wire is used. Typical sizes are 14 gauge and 12 gauge. To confirm your wire size, go to your circuit breaker panel and turn off the breaker which turns off the ceiling fan. There should be a number printed on this breaker. Like 15 or 20. This is the "amperage" of the breaker and determines what size wire should be used. So 15? 20?

    Then with just this breaker turned off, might want to see what all this breaker controls in addition to the ceiling fan. There is a possibility that the additional lights could overload the circuit, but probably not.

    If you know the total wattage of each track lighting fixture, that would help. Or the wattage of each bulb and how many bulbs you plan to have on each track light.

  3. #18

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    And do you have a budget for this project? Want to keep expenses down?

    Or want to get everything working like you want and OK to spend what it takes?

  4. #19
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christo View Post
    I think I would like to try and run additional wires. As the Purple (The Hot When grounded and tested) Green and White are in conduit and I believe I can pull additional wire through. I hope there is enough space in the conduit. Can I eliminate one wire and use that as a pull.

    Can you explain in simple terms how I go about wiring this. I hope I am being clear.
    You can run eight #12 or eleven #14 THHN in a 1/2" PVC conduit; one more of each in 1/2" EMT. Since you need only one ground and one neutral that would leave 6 or more for the hot and controls.

    You might want to remove the existing wires while installing a pull line; then pull all at one time in a bundle. It can be difficult trying to pull in more while there are also some in the pipe.

    You should use some kind of lubricant. One electrician told me that corn starch will work. You can use your imagination; lubricant is lubricant but I would avoid petroleum-based lubricants.

    You can use one switch to apply power but I would keep the fan and light separate for dimmer and speed control.

    You may need to increase the size of boxes to accommodate the wires if you pull a lot of them.

    It will be a lot easier if it is run on #14 with a 15 Amp breaker; and not on the required bathroom receptacle circuit. Pulling the wires is not much different but making up solid #12 is much harder. I like stranded wire in conduit.

    You do not need GFCI protection if there is no receptacle. There are AFCI requirements if it is a new circuit under the 2008 Code.

  5. #20
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Step 1: Turn off breaker, and disconnect all wires at the fan. Tape them together with a polypropelene pull-string at the fan, and pull them all back from the switch box end. Regular old electrical tape works good to hold everything together. Don't skimp on the tape. You will now have a coil of three wires -- purple, green, and white -- lying neatly on the floor, and the pull-string leading back into the conduit up to the fan box.

    Step 2: Having checked the breaker for capacity (15A or 20A), add a 4th wire (black or red would be nice) of appropriate gauge (#14 for 15A, #12 for 20A -- use STRANDED wire for easier pulling) to the bundle, taping it to the bundle at the end where the pull-string is attached. Now have your lovely assistant gently pull the new 4-wire bundle back through the conduit up to the fan box, while you carefully feed the bundle into the conduit at the switchbox end. A "pulling lube", aka "slime" makes the job easier, but probably isn't necessary for a short run like this.

    Step 3: Reconnect the fan as it was, and pull more of the new wire into the fan box to allow extending it to the light, if necessary. The light needs the new wire, a white (connected to the white in the fan box), and a green.

    Step 4: Choose switches appropriate to your needs and switchbox style. One of BillyBob's links showed switches specifically designed to control both a fan and a light using a single gang in the switchbox, which may be just what you need. The existing black wire in the switch box needs to be split via a pigtails and a wirenut to the 2 switches -- this is the "hot" wire supplying power. The other sides of the switches go to the purple -- for the fan -- and the new wire for the light. Some of these dual fan/light switches may use a common power wire, which would eliminate the need for the pigtailed hot.

    That should do it. Turn on the breaker and bask in your success.

  6. #21
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    You can run eight #12 or eleven #14 THHN in a 1/2" PVC conduit; one more of each in 1/2" EMT.

    the only problem would be finding a six hundred pound gorilla to pull them through the pipes. But what relevence does that have when all he needs is one more wire for the lighting?

  7. #22

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    I'm almost there. I was able to run a new wire. I am not clear on the switch part of this. I have 3 single pole switches with this type of a wallplate.
    http://images.hardwareandtools.com/T/u325977.jpg
    One switch is for the fan, one for an outside light, and the other is for a wall receptacle. Can I eliminate this and just have permanent electric to the receptacle and use this for the lights. The fan can be controlled by the wireless remote.

  8. #23
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    You should be able to take the wires off of the switch that is currently switching that outlet and put a wire nut on them, connecting them together. If you wish, add a 6" or so wire to that connection, run it back to the switch, then put the new wire you ran on the other terminal of the switch. Up at the fan box, that new wire will be switched and you'll need to connect to the neutral and ground wire and run them to the track lighting.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #24
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    I wouldn't use the receptacle power for the fan or light, without some more research to make sure there isn't a neutral or ampacity issue somewhere.

  10. #25
    Electrician Chris75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I wouldn't use the receptacle power for the fan or light, without some more research to make sure there isn't a neutral or ampacity issue somewhere.
    Why not? a fan draws one amp tops, it will be perfectly fine. not sure what you mean by the neutral issue. Besides, when I rough a house I don't seperate lights and receptacles, that's just silly.
    Last edited by Chris75; 08-19-2008 at 03:30 PM.

  11. #26

    Default Thanks All For Assisting

    It appears as though I have it wired correctly. I tested the fan and one track light and seems to be working great. I just need to tie in the other track light, then put it all back together. I sincerely want to thank all that took the time and respond. I am most greatful and the project will be a wonderful addition to my home. All the best.

  12. #27
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris75 View Post
    Why not? a fan draws one amp tops, it will be perfectly fine. not sure what you mean by the neutral issue.
    If the receptacle circuit were wired as a 20A circuit, but the wires to the fan were #14, there would be an ampacity issue, I would think. I also just don't like using a neutral from one circuit to serve as the neutral in another. Probably legal, I just don't like to do that.

  13. #28
    Electrician Chris75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    If the receptacle circuit were wired as a 20A circuit, but the wires to the fan were #14, there would be an ampacity issue, I would think. I also just don't like using a neutral from one circuit to serve as the neutral in another. Probably legal, I just don't like to do that.
    I probably missed the boat, because I didnt read the whole thread, but your correct with your first statement, that would be an issue... Your 2nd statement wouldnt happen if somebody new what they were doing, but you are correct it would be a violation to connect two seperate neutrals together.

  14. #29

    Default Slight Problem - Switch Is Hot To The Touch

    I used a 300w 1.5A Light/Fan Switch for a fan and two track lights. Each track light has 6 50w incandescent lights. When I leave the lights on for a short time the switch especially the metal part gets pretty hot. The original single pole switch is connected to a 10 Amp breaker, which is what my current configuration is using. I used a #10 wire for the lights and the additional wire I added. Am I doing something wrong here to cause this overheating of the switch. If so how can I resolve this. Thanks for further help.

  15. #30
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christo View Post
    I used a 300w 1.5A Light/Fan Switch for a fan and two track lights. Each track light has 6 50w incandescent lights. When I leave the lights on for a short time the switch especially the metal part gets pretty hot. The original single pole switch is connected to a 10 Amp breaker, which is what my current configuration is using. I used a #10 wire for the lights and the additional wire I added. Am I doing something wrong here to cause this overheating of the switch. If so how can I resolve this. Thanks for further help.

    Hire an electrician before your house get hot

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