Redwood
Master Plumber
Be glad it wasn't Micky Mouse...
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Unions. Yes or NO?
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Marc46
HVAC Contractor
My short and swift answer is NO!
I have run my own business for 17 years, and am very happy that Florida is a "right to work" state.
Wouldn't want it any other way.
Unions were needed many years ago,........they have outlived their usefullness, and have become as corrupt as our politicians IMHO.
I have run my own business for 17 years, and am very happy that Florida is a "right to work" state.
Wouldn't want it any other way.
Unions were needed many years ago,........they have outlived their usefullness, and have become as corrupt as our politicians IMHO.
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Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
You can say that because you are a bussiness owner, why would you want to pay your employees anymore than you have to.... right? By the way.. what is the average pay for your employees? How much do they pay monthly for there health insurance if you provide any plans? How many actual licensed journeyman do you have working for you vs. restricted. I'll also bet if your employees feel shafted in any way they'll get their money back other ways from you. Remember a well paid worker is generally a happy productive worker.
p.s. Does Jed or Jeb whatever Bush still govern the state? Oh..That explains alot.
p.s. Does Jed or Jeb whatever Bush still govern the state? Oh..That explains alot.
MaintenanceGuy
In the Trades
I've worked in union and non-union shops. I've supervised union and non-union workers.
Unions make everyone equal. Unfortunately everyone isn't equal. If you're a terrible employee, unions make sure you're treated as well as an average worker. If you're a spectacular employee, unions make sure you're treated as well as an average worker.
Unions are a good deal for the slackers and a bad deal for the ambitious.
Unions make everyone equal. Unfortunately everyone isn't equal. If you're a terrible employee, unions make sure you're treated as well as an average worker. If you're a spectacular employee, unions make sure you're treated as well as an average worker.
Unions are a good deal for the slackers and a bad deal for the ambitious.
Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
]Negative!!! Again here is a common misconception of union's the union's protect the slacker's. I can only speak from the perspective of trade union's, but I still belive that is a twisted view of union's. Beside's ambitious non union worker's are still making less the the union people. If your good at what you do and there is a coworker holding you back that person will get what is coming."What goes around comes around."
Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
Business interests led by the Chamber of Commerce lobbied extensively for right-to-work legislation in the southern states.[4][5][6][7] Opponents argue right-to-work laws create a free-rider problem, in which non-union employees (who are bound by the terms of the union contract even though they are not members of the union) benefit from collective bargaining without paying union dues.[4] They also contend outlawing compulsory union dues makes union activities less sustainable, that the laws prevent free contracts between unions and business owners, and that this makes it harder for unions to organize and less attractive for people to join a union. For these reasons, they often refer to right-to-work states as "right-to-fire" states, and "non-right-to-work" states as "free collective bargaining" states.
Critics from organized labor have argued since the late 1970s[8] that while the National Right to Work Committee purports to engage in grass-roots lobbying on behalf of the "little guy", the National Right to Work Committee was formed by a group of southern businessmen with the express purpose of fighting unions, and that they "added a few workers for the purpose of public relations."[9] They also argue that the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation has received millions of dollars in grants from foundations controlled by major U.S. industrialists like the New York based John M. Olin Foundation, Inc. which grew out of a family manufacturing business,[9][10][11] and other right wing groups.[8]
Opponents further argue that because unions are weakened by these laws, wages are lowered and worker safety and health is endangered. They cite statistics from the United States Department of Labor showing, for example, that in 2003 the rate of workplace fatalities per 100,000 workers was highest in right-to-work states. Nineteen of the top 25 states for worker fatality rates were right-to-work states, while 3 of the bottom 25 states were right-to-work states.
Right to work laws can also be argued against on the basis of libertarian principles, as a government interference in labour relations[12][13]. However, some libertarians say just the opposite.[14][15][16
Critics from organized labor have argued since the late 1970s[8] that while the National Right to Work Committee purports to engage in grass-roots lobbying on behalf of the "little guy", the National Right to Work Committee was formed by a group of southern businessmen with the express purpose of fighting unions, and that they "added a few workers for the purpose of public relations."[9] They also argue that the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation has received millions of dollars in grants from foundations controlled by major U.S. industrialists like the New York based John M. Olin Foundation, Inc. which grew out of a family manufacturing business,[9][10][11] and other right wing groups.[8]
Opponents further argue that because unions are weakened by these laws, wages are lowered and worker safety and health is endangered. They cite statistics from the United States Department of Labor showing, for example, that in 2003 the rate of workplace fatalities per 100,000 workers was highest in right-to-work states. Nineteen of the top 25 states for worker fatality rates were right-to-work states, while 3 of the bottom 25 states were right-to-work states.
Right to work laws can also be argued against on the basis of libertarian principles, as a government interference in labour relations[12][13]. However, some libertarians say just the opposite.[14][15][16
Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
Nice copy and paste but that doesn't fly in the real world of politics, especially when a union is involved. They created the Lie, Lie, and Deny theory found at Wikipedia FFS!Now tell us the state you reside in, and your master's license number because the entire time I was union, they discouraged individual betterment.
They wanted everyone to be journeymen plumbers and if you wanted a master's license, you'd get the boot because they knew it was for personal business reasons.
Marc46
HVAC Contractor
And why should an employer NOT have the right to fire?
Life is tough all over,.......BTW, I worked in my trade for others for 10 years prior to going into business.
Never was fired, or layed off.
If you are good,.......you excel, if not,.........then there are unions.
I always loved watching Union electricians on jobs I was working on.
They must have had alarm clocks with buzzers in their pants, cause they stopped for "breaks, and lunch" within a second, even if it caused an extra few hours of work for the stoppage.
I have never worked that way. I stop when I reach a "stopping point",......not by a stop watch.
Did the same when working for others.
BTW, I am not saying that all union workers suck,.......just a good percentage.
Life is tough all over,.......BTW, I worked in my trade for others for 10 years prior to going into business.
Never was fired, or layed off.
If you are good,.......you excel, if not,.........then there are unions.
I always loved watching Union electricians on jobs I was working on.
They must have had alarm clocks with buzzers in their pants, cause they stopped for "breaks, and lunch" within a second, even if it caused an extra few hours of work for the stoppage.
I have never worked that way. I stop when I reach a "stopping point",......not by a stop watch.
Did the same when working for others.
BTW, I am not saying that all union workers suck,.......just a good percentage.
Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
That's right marc,
One around 9:15am
One around 2:30pm
Both were 10 minute breaks and always lasted 20, but no one ever said a word....
Material waste? Who cares, it was bidded for 48 pieces of copper, can't help it only took........13...
Load er' up!
One around 9:15am
One around 2:30pm
Both were 10 minute breaks and always lasted 20, but no one ever said a word....
Material waste? Who cares, it was bidded for 48 pieces of copper, can't help it only took........13...
Load er' up!
99k
Radon Contractor and Water Treatment
I think you are outnumbered
There's an old saying, "don't ask the question if you can't stand the answer". Just curious , do you have any other association other than being a member?
Redwood
Master Plumber
I worked in a union shop (Graphic Arts) where there were a number of employees that were quite specialized. There were a few that held jobs where they actually worked maybe a full 8 hours a week and a few that were consistantly maxed out 40 -50 hours a week....
Those guys that maybe worked 8 hours a week could not lift a finger to help anywhere else... Rules...
They were very good at playing spades, hearts, rummy 500, chess and a few other games right up until the plant closed...
I view it as a case where the union put a gun barrel in its mouth and pulled the trigger.
Those guys that maybe worked 8 hours a week could not lift a finger to help anywhere else... Rules...
They were very good at playing spades, hearts, rummy 500, chess and a few other games right up until the plant closed...
I view it as a case where the union put a gun barrel in its mouth and pulled the trigger.
Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
The plumbing company that I worked for, that went union, that was convinced by the union that given their new construction clientell that the move was a solid one.
They lasted 15 months, new construction slowed down but certainly not those union dues. Had to rely solely on the service side to keep the lights on.
Do you know why they slowed down in new construction at a time when the building industry was at its tops?
Because in order to bid on those jobs and make money, they outpriced themselves given the scale they were FORCED to pay given the # of apprentices on the job, number of Journeymen. Then add the crew leader and ***X amount of hours on the job from start to finish.
The union didn't care if you made money or not, they just wanted their dues.
The company was a perfect example of one that ran for years, profitable without outsiders moving the chess pieces and the minute they "owned" that company, 15 months and down goes a family run business. All because it was the right thing to do being union proud and all. Pffffffft.
Granted, there's only a handful of legit, good unions, but they are locked in so tight that you literally have to know someone to get in. That's politics in the big shammy. Knowledge base need not apply.
They lasted 15 months, new construction slowed down but certainly not those union dues. Had to rely solely on the service side to keep the lights on.
Do you know why they slowed down in new construction at a time when the building industry was at its tops?
Because in order to bid on those jobs and make money, they outpriced themselves given the scale they were FORCED to pay given the # of apprentices on the job, number of Journeymen. Then add the crew leader and ***X amount of hours on the job from start to finish.
The union didn't care if you made money or not, they just wanted their dues.
The company was a perfect example of one that ran for years, profitable without outsiders moving the chess pieces and the minute they "owned" that company, 15 months and down goes a family run business. All because it was the right thing to do being union proud and all. Pffffffft.
Granted, there's only a handful of legit, good unions, but they are locked in so tight that you literally have to know someone to get in. That's politics in the big shammy. Knowledge base need not apply.
Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
Again the union hater's strike back! The union is not at fault for your place of employment slowing down, and your non- union contractor's were probably feeling the hurt to. There are other factor's at work that cause our economy to slow down and most of them probably went to ivoy league colleges. We keep blaming the worker, god forbid he wants above poverty wages. I guess in the end nobody appreciates trademan. If it were not for us, people would still be sh##ting and pi##ing in a cold dark cave. As far as your union dues there's always a min. if your not working dues are not much. Is that to much to ask for someone to represent you to recieve a fair wage.Wake up people!!
Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
I'm not sure what union's all of you belonged to, but if a union shop does not like your work you are layed off (FIRED). And as far as the breaks I believe they are at 9:30 and lunch. Why should you not be entitled to a break? Don't you think your good enough? You can work right thru 15min break and lunch, go ahead continue, it does not make you a better person. And one more thing, I don't care if I'm out numbered, as long as people post I'll keep responding.If you all have noticed I have not once been disrespectful to anyone posting there thoughts on this post, not once have I called any one a SCAB, but yet I find every one who dislikes union's continue's to be disrepectful. By the way post what state you are licensed in and maybe I can come up with a few things.
Redwood
Master Plumber
My union dues $0.00
If I don't like my working conditions my toolbox has handles on it!
If I don't like my working conditions my toolbox has handles on it!
Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
Maybe.......come up with a few things?
KY Master #7083
KY Journeyman #12898
KY Backflow Tester #97
OH Journeyman #1016
KY 4 YR APPRENTICESHIP
Lemme go to google and see if I have any others....
Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
Mr. Rugged, can clearly see why you dislike unions... your from Kentucy! The only thing I like with Kentucy in it is chicken, but even those cloned chickens are nasty. If your bragging about credentials that's not that impressive.
1) Master plumber License ( Wi)
2) Cross connection control tester registation (Wi)
3) UDC- Plumbing Inspector License (Wi)
4) Commercial Plumbing Inspector License (Wi)
3yrs plumbing major at Technical High school
5 yr apprenticeship (8,000 hrs) 5yrs nibht school
4yrs day school (8hrs of class per week) paid for by contractor
1) Master plumber License ( Wi)
2) Cross connection control tester registation (Wi)
3) UDC- Plumbing Inspector License (Wi)
4) Commercial Plumbing Inspector License (Wi)
3yrs plumbing major at Technical High school
5 yr apprenticeship (8,000 hrs) 5yrs nibht school
4yrs day school (8hrs of class per week) paid for by contractor
Redwood
Master Plumber
And none of those taught you how a septic system works?
Master Plumber 101
In the Trades
Mr. Rugged, Iwould also like to reply that you could'nt get a credential in wi unless you take our state test, I will guarentee you would never pass it. I 've seen other plumber's from out of state come try and rarely successfully passed. On the other hand I believe because Wi credintial holder's are held in high regard they can plumb any where in the U.S. with a travel card, except a few select states. (Kentucy is not one of them)
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