American Standard bashing unfair?

In reading some of Ian's Cadet 3 posts someone referred to American Standard as something like "Central American Standard" because it's made in Mexico.

Well I just installed a Toto Drake last night.

The bowl was made in China, the tank was made in Mexico, and the seat was made in Canada.

I had pictured wizened Japanese craftsmen working over it at their factory in Georgia or something, but nope, made in China and Mexico.

Does Toto hire the talent and leave the scrubs for everyone else who also makes their toilets in Mexico or is the criticism of American Standard for making them in Mexico unfair?

In today's economy, products may end up being built all over the place. One thing that separates some companies from the others is the design and the quality control exerted over their manufacturing. The amount of QA/QC performed can vary radically by company. Anyone can make a quality product, given enough help, use of quality materials, and clear understanding of the expectations. There is no shortage of companies that will take shortcuts, given the opportunity, of either training, materials, QA/QC, or design. Toto holds their factories to a higher standard than most companies, and starts with a good design. You need both to be consistent. Many of the products out there lack one or the other of these qualities.

If a product is being bashed just because of where it is made, that would not be fair in my opinion. Quality control can be achieved regardless of the country of origin and/or nationality of the workers and that includes the USA. As we all know, it is a sad fact of modern times that many of our products and services are being outsourced to foreign countries because of their lower wages. It falls to the manufacturer to see to it that quality controls are of the highest standards. Toto it appears has done this very well as as you point out, Toto is manufactured in many countries, even more than you mentioned, but they all have a high level of quality. That AS toilets are often bashed has really nothing to do with where they are made, but rather the quality controls the AS company enforces on their production lines and final inspections. My guess is that Toto also has bad toilets come off their production line, but their inspectors reject them and do not pass them on to Big Box Stores at a reduced price. Again, I don't see this as having anything to do with the country of manufacture.

Having just had a major struggle with an American Standard toilet, only to discover that it was a defect in workmanship that was causing the leaking, I'd say that it's ok to be skeptical of AS's quality standards, but I surely wouldn't blame it on where it's made.

I build computers. The parts I use come from several countries, including a few from the US. Some are well known companies with high quality standards and others are tiny little companies like the one in China that makes THE BEST power cords I've ever used. It all depends on the company, not the country.

SB

PS And even though I use companies with good standards, I still get a dud every now and then...it just happens.

Does Toto hire the talent and leave the scrubs for everyone else who also makes their toilets in Mexico or is the criticism of American Standard for making them in Mexico unfair?

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I thinks Toto does hire the talent.

Typically, the Toto bashers bring up where a product is manufactured or in what country the company is owned.
All of these things are changing fast.

Just two years ago, Gerber went from using an American Flag on their advertising and being an American company, to being owned by a Chinese company.

Mansfield is now owned by a Colombian company.

Also in the last two years, American Standard, Crane and Eljer have been bought by an Equity group; Bain Capital.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20070723/bain-capital-american-standard-acquisition.htm

Kohler is still family owned in Wisconsin. They manufacture in many parts of the world.

Toto is a Japanese company with manufacturing in Georgia USA, Mexico, Vietnam, Japan, Thailand, China, Canada,

There are some that bash Toto, I guess they would bash Toyota, Honda and Lexus too. Companies that also manufacture in the US, and maintain high standards.

To say something was Mexican Standard, or Central American Standard is more a response to those that complain about buying American and say only buy American.
When it's pointed out that America also means Central America it sounds like a slam. It's just pointing out where many "American" products are made.
They "want to buy American, and watch baseball on the big screen LCD's made in China.
There are Walmarts all over the Mid West. Most of the products are from China.
It's impossible to only buy from only one country. We are trade partners with almost everybody. They buy our stuff, we buy theirs.

Part of what used to be true about Mexican plumbing, was that the quality was not that good. As plumbers, we saw that all the time.

One thing Toto does, better than anyone else, is developing a different way of making the products. That, and they are the best at only putting "A" porcelain in their boxes. When I open a box marked Toto, I don't worry about it. I have found them to contain less than 1% defects.

It is not as good with the other brands in my experience.

When you are paid for your time, it matters that what comes in the box is a usable and a sales worthy product.
It would make a lot of sense, if only good product was boxed and shipped for sale.

So was Central American Standard or Mexican Standard a slam?
A little yes and no.
But if there were only good products in the box, it would never have been coined.

Well stated Terry!
I've been installing Toto as my toilet of choice for over 5 years now without a defect or,callback on one yet.

Sadly it's not even close to my experience with Am. Std.
I'm all for hiring people with disabilities but QC inspectors should not be blind.

I will bash any product that cost me money because of installing defective product on a frequent basis. I also chose the product I install based on quality and reliability. A plumber cannot make a good living using products that are 50% defective or, require constant tinkering to keep them running properly. To make a good living in this business you have to do it once and do it right!

I am staying out of this. I have my nice little place now where we can all discuss Cadet 3s in relative privacy.

But I still do not know how much a Drake costs versus a Cadet 3?

Let the people decide.

Geography - North America

North America includes all of the continent north of the Isthmus of Panama. Central America is part of North America.

Dictionary: North America
The northern continent of the Western Hemisphere, extending northward from the Colombia-Panama border and including Central America, Mexico, the islands of the Caribbean Sea, the United States, Canada, the Arctic Archipelago, and Greenland. http://www.answers.com/topic/north-america

Mexico is not part of Central America. It is always referred to as part of North America.

Mexico is not part of Central America. It is always referred to as part of North America.

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Bob,
Thanks for the lesson.
Ok, it's agreed, it's Mexican Standard.

Now is we can just get them to stop serving Jose Cuervo in the company cantina at lunch and during breaks...

All else aside the price AS charges for their products is unfair IMHO