Outdoor flow, dropped pump, no result

Hello All:

New to this forum as a result of some issues with my well. I recently noticed a significant drop in water flow to my lawn. I have about 1/2 acres of front yard irrigated. I thought this was mostly due to faulty backflow that was damaged in the winter, however have since seen this to not be the case. About a week ago I called the original installer of well (house was built 3 years ago) and explained that pressure was down. I was not there when the service tech arrived and told my friend who was there in advance to make sure they check the system but do not turn the sprinkler on (big mistake on my part). I didn't want them to assume the probably was the sprinkler. Reason for this was this company initially installed my well at around 250 feet, it failed due to sand, redrilled at around 250' in another spot same problem. Went to 440 and pulled up sludge, settled on another one at 220 which still had sand but installed an aquacore filtration system. So, guy tested at the pressure tank last week, said everything was fine and left.

A week later I had my backyard irrigated (1.5 acres, 80 heads on 10 zones). I held this appointment up until the well was cleared. Sprinkler system installed, and they replaced the preventer. Problem now is I cant run any zone for more than 10 minutes, even the frontyard on 4-5 heads. Tank drops down to 10, sometimes 5 psi. So I called another well company. Guy came out today and dropped the pump another 45ft (he has done about 10 service calls in 2 square miles of my house, said water level is down 25-30 feet). Also replaced first 30 feet of pipe which he said was poor quality, and replaced a galvanized adapter at the pump with stainless. Pump is a Myers 1.5 rated at 20 gpm. He drops the pump back in, we run it at the pump(house is off at this point). Runs for about 5 minutes sucks dry. Wait another 5 minutes, sucks dry and over and over.

I have no problems in the house as he indicated the well can easily recover, however with the sprinkler system the well can't catch up. He recommends blowing out the well (50/50 chance it will work), or I need a new well (5-6k). He also thinks I should go back to the builder as he feels the well was constructed poorly from everything he saw (piping, adapter, no conduit with wire, multiple drills etc). From what I see on my warranty this is not covered as I am past two years, only water quality. Anyone have any advice, I figure I just spent 400 today on dropping the pump, so if I was a gambling man 50/50 at $500 more looks better than 6k. Any help is greatly appreciated.

-Mike

All of those guys will keep trying as long as you are willing to keep paying.

An Aquacore filter has nothing to do with removing sand. They require a 50 micron or better pre-filter, which will remove all of the sand before it gets to the Aquacore.

You are apparently in a low-yield aquifer. Unless someone has drilled wells in the area that deliver what you want, you are probably stuck with the result.

The next time you talk to a driller, ask him to give you well logs for the last 20 wells that he has drilled within a 5 mile radius of where you live. Find out how deep they are, what kind of aquifer they are in, and the sustained yield of the wells. Talk to the owners of the wells and see how satisfied they are.

See how many get the yield and quality that would satisfy you.

Thanks for the quick reply Bob, very insightful.

Bob NH said:

All of those guys will keep trying as long as you are willing to keep paying.

An Aquacore filter has nothing to do with removing sand. They require a 50 micron or better pre-filter, which will remove all of the sand before it gets to the Aquacore.

Can you explain that further, it did improve to the point of passing the independent test, however I am actually thinking about having it tested again
as that makes this a warrantable issue with my policy.

You are apparently in a low-yield aquifer. Unless someone has drilled wells in the area that deliver what you want, you are probably stuck with the result.

I have about 100 houses near me on 1.5 acres or better. 3 and 5 houses down irrigate 1.5 and 3.5 each with similar depths and components.

The next time you talk to a driller, ask him to give you well logs for the last 20 wells that he has drilled within a 5 mile radius of where you live. Find out how deep they are, what kind of aquifer they are in, and the sustained yield of the wells. Talk to the owners of the wells and see how satisfied they are.

I never had a problem with quantity of water until the last month, obviously that expands with the addition of the backyard. The drop in water level seems to be localized across a good 2-5 miles, all with similar lot size. Some folks are getting by with dropping the pumops, have heard that 2 have redrilled. I will take your advice, it seems the company I am using now did the development of about 70 homes in front of me, and the guy I used did the 20 in our ours.

See how many get the yield and quality that would satisfy you.[/QUOTE

Do you think I am wasting my time by trying the blowout?

Click to expand...

scrap said:

Do you think I am wasting my time by trying the blowout?

Click to expand...

I'm not a well driller. I'm an engineer.

What you are experiencing is something that in the engineering world is called "the shotgun approach" to solving a problem. He doesn't have a target to aim at so he blasts at the flock hoping he hits something. You are buying the ammunition and he will keep blasting as long as you keep buying.

I would ask the "Expert"; the well driller, to explain, based on his experience and knowledge, what the symptoms of my well tell him about what is physically happening in the well.

The static water level defines the location of the water table.

Pumping the well causes the water level to fall to the pump in a very short time. How long does it take for the well to refill to (or nearly to) the static level?

You are getting a lot of sand in the well.

What do the drilling logs show and what would be expected based on those drilling logs?

What does that tell him about the yield of the well?

What condition exists in the well that he is trying to solve by "blowing it out"? What is the physical process of "blowing it out"? What is he blowing out and to where is he blowing it? How does that affect the yield of the well and is it a permanent fix?

Then you must decide if he is making sense.

Maybe you should call 3 more drillers in the area and ask them what they would do to solve the problem. If you get some kind of consistency of answers, and those answers make logical sense, you might pick one of them to try something.

If I were contracting to do a job like this (any job where there is uncertainty but I had several ideas of what might work) I would make a plan along the following lines.
1. Here is what I believe is happening in your well. Based on the symptoms it could be A or B or C.
2. If it's A then we should do this to fix that situation and if it's B we should to that. If it's C then there is no hope of significantly improving the well.
3. I suggest we try Procedure X which might make some improvement, and if that doesn't work we will try Procedure Y, and if neither of them work then we should stop spending money on it. You will need a new well which will cost $XYZZ but there are no guarantees that it will work. You may just have to live with what you have.

It will cost less with one mobilization of equipment and the final result will be arrived at sooner.

Then you have a basis for making a decision.

You may have inadvertantly contributed to the complication and stress of this process by getting multiple drillers to work on the problem and by installing a large and expensive irrigation system without a proven well.

You can't undo what has been done and paid for, but you can step back and take some time to find a driller that is widely respected in the community, talk to his customer references and customers that he didn't give you as references, discuss your options with him, get a plan for drilling and developing a well or improving what you have, and make a decision if it is worth the likely cost.

Take a look at the thread on air lift pumps. https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20914

An air lift pump could be a solution to the sand problem. It won't increase the yield of the aquiferl. The well could be tested with an air lift pump to determine if adequate yield could be developed.

You would have to install the equipment and tank in a freeze-protected space.

very interesting, I will ask this guy if he is familiar with product and concept. I just talked to another company, highly recommended by a commercial installer I know. He stands by the new company that came out, and echoed that gentlemens sentiment toward the poor workmanship of the contractor the builder used. Of course, cheap subs trickle down. He thinks that because immediate neighbors are not experiencing the issue with similar sized properties (keep in mind I never started to irrigate the back, they do) that the issue can be at the screen/impellers and that blowing out may be the solution. I am still going to have an independent test done to ensure quality as that is defensible by the warranty.